TV: Dr. Who

[dbeefy]

hear hear :) RTD may not exactly be Oscar Wilde but at least he was a big force in bringing it back.. could have been worse, could have been made by S4C ;)

[christats]

and written by Barry Welsh :eek:

[James Lee]

"It'll get rid of the Chav problem!"

You'd be pleased to know Precott's taking a stand against them damn chavs! But I bet a Dalek can do it better

[drterror666]

This is getting to be one of the busiest threads on the site!

Anyway, even though this series has been a bit of a rocky ride, I'm really glad to see it back on TV at all! Plus, look at what it's done for the Saturday night viewers, what with a great majority of them dumping ITV for a dose of Doctor Who! Maybe ITV should take note! Maybe it's time to resurrect and reformat stuff like Sapphire & Steel and Tales Of The Unexpected? People obviously want a good story over this 'reality' tat.

I still view the series as a 21st Century rethinking of the format. The episode before the last one, The Long Game, actually gave me some faith that RTD can pen good stories without the innane slapstick comedy and pathetic dialogue. Let's hope he can deliver good stuff in the future. Here's to the Doctor lasting many years yet! :)

[Grant]

I kid you not!

"We are concerned about role models for children using the sort of tactics that Doctor Who used against the Dalek," a BBFC spokeswoman said.

"If that was transferred into the playground it would be something we would want to tackle."

Nanny (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4550967.stm) state anyone? :D :D :D

Grant :)

[mushie]

Sorry don't like Dr Who, But Sylvester Mccoy was in my shop today in cheltenham and we had a little chat-nice fella.

[christats]

I kid you not!

"We are concerned about role models for children using the sort of tactics that Doctor Who used against the Dalek," a BBFC spokeswoman said.

"If that was transferred into the playground it would be something we would want to tackle."

Nanny (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4550967.stm) state anyone? :D :D :D

Grant :)
I read it in the paper,and now on the link.I thought the BBFC couldn't get more rediculous.Every one knows Daleks don't go to school.
Sylvester McCoy might be pleasant,but he has been the worst Doctor Who.

[Mojo]

Just when I was beginning to think the BBFC were 'growing up' a bit... Has no one told them that the Daleks aren't real?

[SicCoyote]

Plus if a kid managed to get an electric chair into the school playground that would be something we would have to tackle.

[Rissos]

I just read the link. Seems a bit over the top. I just think we need to keep electric drills away from 8 year olds. Not that I would ever have thought of responsible parenting like that myself. Oh no sir!

[Mark Y]

Is there any point in restricting something to over 12s on DVD that has already been seen on peak time TV? While we're on this subject, has anyone noticed the growing number of physical assaults in soaps. Here, violence and aggression is seen as a 'normal' response to problems, but the police are never called and no-one ever ends up in court. I think this is irresponsible programme making and a very bad example to the young. I'd like to see some of the soaps submitted to the BBFC before broadcast... :D

[drterror666]

I swear that some of the soap storylines would get an '18'!

Still, it's nice to see Doctor Who with 'adult' themes, though.

[christats]

Is there any point in restricting something to over 12s on DVD that has already been seen on peak time TV? While we're on this subject, has anyone noticed the growing number of physical assaults in soaps. Here, violence and aggression is seen as a 'normal' response to problems, but the police are never called and no-one ever ends up in court. I think this is irresponsible programme making and a very bad example to the young. I'd like to see some of the soaps submitted to the BBFC before broadcast... :D
I didn't realize the soaps had become so realistic.

[Grant]

they should all be banned then perhaps people may take notice of whats happening in the real world :D

Grant :)

[drterror666]

Doctor Who's been censored (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4557853.stm)!

What does everyone think of that penultimate paragraph in the news story, btw? Does that mean what I think it means, because I found it a little ambiguous.

[Rissos]

I wouldn't call this censored as such. The producer, not an outside influence, turning down a sound effect seems fairly inconsequntial to me.
And regarding that paragraph, I think I'm reading it the same way as you.
Oo-er Doctor! :D

[Grant]

Sounds great, but apparently the slitheen are returning (in the episode 'Boomtown'?) according to one of the rags today - I didn't think they worked that well although the kids liked them...

Grant :)

[drterror666]

Well, I won't be watching that one then. The Slitheen are the absolute pits!

[drterror666]

I noticed that Doctor Who is on at 6:30 tonight, not 7:00, so you've been warned! The more I've read about this episode, the more it sounds like another RTD disaster in the making! And, it's a two parter! I fear that this series may be going out with a fizzle, instead of a bang!

Oh, and yes I do like exclamation marks! :D

[MarcMorris]

Some people are never happy it would seem. How can you knock the series? It's been a HUGE commercial success, so they're obviously doing something right. Just watch it and enjoy but remember - the target audience is the kids!

I think tonight's episode may have been trimmed following advice from the BBFC... It'll go out uncut on DVD though.

[CJ34]

Following advice from the BBFC...? Hang on, since when does the BBFC's remit cover broadcasting standards? They're getting a bit too big for their boots, I think! Or is this because the DVD has now been rated 12, so the broadcasters have to take that lead now?

[drterror666]

Some people are never happy it would seem. How can you knock the series? It's been a HUGE commercial success, so they're obviously doing something right. Just watch it and enjoy but remember - the target audience is the kids!

A HUGE commercial success it may have been, but a success story for some fellow Whovians it hasn't been. I mean, some of those stories have been utter cack! Especially, anything involving the bloody Slitheen!!!

I understand the kids are loving it, but these are 21st Century kids who may not have seen the original series, kids who love slick production and SFX, over plot.

To me it doesn't really feel like Doctor Who. :(

[SicCoyote]

I thought the first episode of the slithreen story was not so good but the second part was much better, even with it's torch shining in your face references to recent conflicts.

[Mojo]

I think tonight's episode may have been trimmed following advice from the BBFC... It'll go out uncut on DVD though.

Excuse me, but what has it got to do with the BBFC?

TV programmes are transmitted, then classified. If the BBFC have stuck their nose into this before it's been transmitted, the BBC should tell them to piss off.

[SicCoyote]

Advice not orders, and it would probably be the bbc asking.

[Mojo]

I still don't get this though, Sic. Since when did the BBFC start advising the BBC before they've transmitted a programme? So much for the Beeb's much lauded 'independance'.

If this is true, it's pathetic.

[Grant]

Hey tonights ep was pretty good actually. My 7 year-old went to hide behind the sofa! :D

POSSIBLE SPOILER:


I've also read the daleks are invading Earth in the series finale, can't wait!

Grant :)

[christats]

I have seen all the episodes so far having decided to stick with it.Despite early teething troubles I generally think this is a good series for a "kids" program.
I don't know why but I liked last nights episode most of all,even prefering it to the dalek episode.
The only thing which bothered me was,it had a slight feeling of lets make it weird for the sake of it.
It made me want to watch the second part to see the solution/explanation,but I get a feeling that it may be a silly anti-climax.If I am wrong then this will be the best story so far.
You just can't beat dark gloomy nights for a sinister atmosphere.
By the way congrats to Javine for coming 22nd out of 24,and for shakey for winning that pop thing. :eek: Maybe I am seeing Doctor Who through false eyes and it seemed wonderful when followed by the sh*t that was on.

[mrb]

the scariest thing about this series is Billie Pipers' skin......yeeeuch.

[Mojo]

Really enjoyed last night's episode. Very creepy in places. Richard Wilson's 'transformation' was a highlight. Good to see this kind of stuff at 6.30 in the evening :D

[christats]

the scariest thing about this series is Billie Pipers' skin......yeeeuch.
Thats not fair,its the horsey teeth that are scary. :eek:

[drterror666]

Muuuuuuuuuuuuuuummyyyyy!!! Are you my muuuummmmyyyy?

Anyway, was I the only one thinking of Papa Lazerou from League Of Gentlemen? You know, "You're my mummy now!" and all that! :D

Again, I thought I was watching an updated version of Sapphire & Steel, what with all the weirdness and especially with that annoying little brat in the gas mask. I just wanted him to shut up! I thought the episode was OK, but nothing like I was expecting, especially not scary. Plus, Captain Harkness? Was he there to fill up empty plot minutes or what? I bet he copped a feel of Rosie when she fainted, the untrustworthy git!

I'm with christats, in that I'm eager to see where this one is going, although, like christats, I also feel we're in for an anticlimax.

As an aside, I thought the big Dalek invasion thingy was going to be the Xmas special?

[drterror666]

Please, let it be true! (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4572551.stm)

[se7en45]

Yeah, Billie's leaving too... She wants to star in sex films! :eek:

Erm, okay, I admit it, I'm drinking at the moment! :D

[Mojo]

I think Billie Piper's been unfairly maligned at times - I think she's been pretty good.

And don't celebrate just yet, Dr Terror - there are reports that her on screen boyfriend Mikey is going to be the new assistant.
NO! NO!! NO!!!!

[christats]

I think the main problem with Billie Piper is that her image because of her past isn't cool.She probably isn't the greatest actress in the world,but I have seen worse.
The pop song "cause we want to" or whatever it was called,and the fact she was married to a professional drunk (rich drunk) twice her age dosn't help.
If she thinks she can do better than Doctor Who then I will be amazed?
Lets have another Ex singer as his sidekick.Say Charlotte Church or someone. :)
Looks like I am back on the subject of famous drunks again. :)

[se7en45]

Looks like I am back on the subject of famous drunks again. :)

Yes sir, include me in there too! :D

[drterror666]

I vote that Abi Titmuss becomes the next assistant! If ratings flag, all she has to do is 'get them out', and everything will be better again! Although, if we can shoehorn Rebecca 'wrinkly lips' Loos into the TARDIS as well, that might just get the party started. Although, saying that, the DVD would probably be an 18! :D

[christats]

Only if Rebecca Loos starts massaging the Daleks Sink Plunger.Then again under 12's are probably familiar with her.
Just torturing imaginary monsters puts the age rating up.

[drterror666]

Well, what an appalling mess this latest two parter turned out to be! Plot holes the size of ravines! For instance, if the little nanites copied the DNA of the host and transferred it to anyone they 'repaired', then after the Doctor 'updated' them, anyone 'repaired' would have had the Doctor's physiology! Or, did I miss something? Also, the alien 'ambulance' was supposed to have been destroyed by a bomb, but wasn't. Doesn't this mean that the Doctor changed the course of history and left us with a piece of alien technology? Er...

I didn't find the story that scary at all, the scares were all forced into the story, cliche by cliche. I think having this as a two parter was a bit of a waste, as it could easily have been done in 45 minutes flat! As for the Doctor dancing...

Next week, the Slitheen are back and that pretty much guarantees that I won't be watching! I really hope this series isn't going to fizzle out.

[Mojo]

I agree - this would have worked better as a single story. I enjoyed the first part, but it did seem to drag a bit. I too would have loved it to have been more scary.

I'll watch the Slitheen next week ( as long as they don't fart ).

I hope the final two - parter is going to end this ( for the most part ) very enjoyable series on a high note.

[WillHay]

Well, what an appalling mess this latest two parter turned out to be! Plot holes the size of ravines! For instance, if the little nanites copied the DNA of the host and transferred it to anyone they 'repaired', then after the Doctor 'updated' them, anyone 'repaired' would have had the Doctor's physiology! Or, did I miss something? Also, the alien 'ambulance' was supposed to have been destroyed by a bomb, but wasn't. Doesn't this mean that the Doctor changed the course of history and left us with a piece of alien technology? Er...

I didn't find the story that scary at all, the scares were all forced into the story, cliche by cliche. I think having this as a two parter was a bit of a waste, as it could easily have been done in 45 minutes flat! As for the Doctor dancing...

Next week, the Slitheen are back and that pretty much guarantees that I won't be watching! I really hope this series isn't going to fizzle out.

Ditto - I thought the first part was excellent, but this 2nd part was terrible.
The Doctor and Rose are in peril so what do they do? Start talking about dancing. Awful. Toe curling stuff.

And as for next week - no, I don't think so.

[WillHay]

I agree - this would have worked better as a single story. I enjoyed the first part, but it did seem to drag a bit. I too would have loved it to have been more scary.

I'll watch the Slitheen next week ( as long as they don't fart ).

I hope the final two - parter is going to end this ( for the most part ) very enjoyable series on a high note.

It's been occasionally enjoyable, but overall, I rate is as some of the worst SF I've ever seen, and some of the worst Dr Who (Along with McCoy and Trial of the Timelord.)

It's a shame that they let RTD go down the "Soap" route.

[Mojo]

It's been occasionally enjoyable, but overall, I rate is as some of the worst SF I've ever seen, and some of the worst Dr Who (Along with McCoy and Trial of the Timelord.)

I honestly can't see how this is in any way as bad as all the 'Star Trek' / 'Farscape' ***** that Sky One shows every five minutes. Mind you, I'm not much of a sci fi fan - it was always the scary / horror aspect of Dr who that attracted me ( same with the first series of the original 'Outer Limits').

Agree about McCoy / Trial Of A Time Lord - absolute CRAP!

[christats]

I was unfortunatly right with my hunch,and agree with the majority.The first part was good,the second while not terrible was not needed.
I can forgive plot holes,most SCFI has them, to an extent but padding I cannot.
A one hour story instead of 2 45 mins would have been better.
Nearly all episodes seem to meander,then get a rush ending.
Its still better than the majority of Saturday Evening TV though.

[drterror666]

Anyone got any idea of what the final two parter is about? Oh, and what happened to all the 'classic' aliens we were promised? One Dalek and a Cyberman helmet doesn't really count!

[drterror666]

Ditto - I thought the first part was excellent, but this 2nd part was terrible.

Hey, WillHay, I thought you'd given up on this series? ;)

[christats]

The last two episodes are called Bad Wolf and A parting of ways.
There seems to be an indication of a Dalek Invasion possibly connected to the American Bunker incident.(I am just putting 2 and 2 together)
Apparently there are references to Wolves or Lupus in the dalek episode.Something to do with the American Company.Maybe Bruno and his hole in the head reappears.
There have been silly rumours going round about Bad Wolf being the Tardis,that Eccleston is not really Dr Who,but a Bad Wolf masquerading.That Rose is a red riding hood figure,and that there is an involvement of a reality TV show.
We have to get over Boomtown with the farters again first. :eek:
Afterthought:
Aliens of London episode;the graffiti sprayed on the Tardis is Bad Wolf.One of the characters in the 3rd episode on the space station mentions Bad Wolf connected to the time war with the daleks.
Maybe the Doctor fights the time war with Bad Wolf on his Tardis,so is Bad Wolf the Tardis?

[drterror666]

Well, I saw a copy of the Sun today and within its wretched pages was a photo from one of the last two episodes of Doctor Who. It was of Captain Jack about to be manhandled by the robot versions of Trinny and Susannah!!! I kid ye not, they were identical replicas right down to the boobs! Would someone please tell me this is a joke!

[WillHay]

Hey, WillHay, I thought you'd given up on this series? ;)

I don't watch the RTD ones anymore, but this two parter started excellently and just became typical RTD stuff - and really, we could do without the crumby innuendo.

[christats]

I don't watch the RTD ones anymore, but this two parter started excellently and just became typical RTD stuff - and really, we could do without the crumby innuendo.
Russell T Davies didn't actually write this story,but as I expected it went longwinded and downhill.He is the executive producer though so his creative input probably infests the whole series.
As regards Trinny and Susannah,I haven't read the sun but alot of the rumours flying about for a while seem to include the involvent of a reality TV show maybe this is it.
Along with the Time war,Bad wolf Graffiti on Tardis and Daleks etc etc.

[MarcMorris]

Hey WillHay - why watch every episode and then complain? If you don't like them - don't watch them! It's that simple. I think they're great fun myself.

[Neil B]

I can honestly say that I've liked every episode to various degrees.

[Grant]

I think RD said on Confidential that its never been about science-fiction and I would agree. Personally I love the idea of the 'psychic ID' :D

I'm enjoying it anyway....

Grant :)

[drterror666]

Welcome to spoiler central! Oh, and WillHay, please don't read any of this because it'll put you off the series for life! Both these episodes have been written by RTD and he was aiming for a feel similar to that of the Hartnell/Troughton eras.

Bad Wolf + The Parting Of The Ways
The Doctor makes a return appearance to Satellite 5 Space Station and the Doctor is forced to play the game 'Bad Wolf'. He is informed that he has been followed around on his adventures by this group of people, in a 'Big Brother' style house with two other contestants. However, only one contestant will leave the house alive. Elsewhere Rose takes part in The Weakest Link hosted by a robotic Anne Robinson with robotic contestants. Meanwhile the Doctor's greatest enemies intervene with plans of their own - the Daleks. Is this encounter with his greatest foe one too many for the last of the Timelords?

Mentions of 'Bad Wolf'
The Doctor mentions the ‘big bad wolf' scenario in ‘The end of the world' (Episode 2).

In ‘The Unquiet Dead'(Episode 3), Gwyneth tells Rose that she's seen "The darkness, the big bad wolf"

‘Bad Wolf' was spray painted onto the TARDIS with white paint in episode 4 Aliens of London and was removed at the end of episode 5 World War Three

Von Stratten's private plane in ‘Dalek' was called ‘Bad wolf one' (episode 6).

In the episode ‘Father's Day' (Episode 8), a poster on a brick wall had ‘Bad Wolf' scrawled on it.

The American newsreader on www.whosidoctorwho.co.uk is called ‘Mal Loup'- French for ‘Bad Wolf'.

The BBC's Doctor Who web-site (May 3-10 2005) promoted ‘The Long Game', with TV screens on the main page. When these were clicked on, it read ‘badwolf, badwolf badwolf,badwolf badwolf, badwolf badwolf, badwolf'.

One of the news networks in 'The Long Game' (episode 7) was called the "Bad Wolf" channel.

Thanks to TV Tome for all this information. :)

[suzi gina]

...I haven't read the sun but alot of the rumours flying about for a while seem to include the involvent of a reality TV show maybe this is it.

No, I dont think so. In one of the later epsiodes in the season, the Doctor appears inside the Big Brother house (god help us), while Rose appears on an episode of 'The Weakest Link', with a robotic Anne Robinson asking questions

[drterror666]

Looks like we posted at exactly the same time!!! :eek:

[WillHay]

Welcome to spoiler central! Oh, and WillHay, please don't read any of this because it'll put you off the series for life! Both these episodes have been written by RTD and he was aiming for a feel similar to that of the Hartnell/Troughton eras.



I'll believe it when I see it - so far RTD's output resembles bad fanfiction.

I do hope this isn't true - sounds absolutely dreadful.

[WillHay]

I think RD said on Confidential that its never been about science-fiction and I would agree. Personally I love the idea of the 'psychic ID' :D

I'm enjoying it anyway....

Grant :)

Never been about SciFi? What's it been about then?

While most people watched Dr Who for the monsters, SF and Doctor's quirky character, RTD was wondering what was happening "Back home with the assistant's family" (While neglecting that NOTHING happened as the Doctor usually deposited them back in their own time!).

So we now have Dr Who with (mainly) poorly plotted stories, token "SF" elements THROWN IN rather than being part of the plot (Unlike the older, classic series when it was good) and a reliance on Rose and her Pikey family life back on the council estate.

Fantastic.

[drterror666]

I will only be watching this because of the promise of more Daleks. It'll be interesting to know how there are more Daleks, when the one in Dalek was supposed to be the last one.

[WillHay]

Hey WillHay - why watch every episode and then complain? If you don't like them - don't watch them! It's that simple. I think they're great fun myself.

For the same reason I stuck by the show from the 1970s to the sorry state of stories in the McCoy/Colin Baker era. The vain hope that it might somehow improve (Which it has done a couple of times in this series.) I don't see much chance of this improving while RTD is doing the lion's share of the stories.

[MarcMorris]

Regardless of what you think though, the series *has* been extremely successful.

[zanner]

i've only watched a couple & they've been quite good... :) ...zanner.

[WillHay]

Regardless of what you think though, the series *has* been extremely successful.

Maybe in terms of viewing figures. But then again, Coronation Street and Eastenders are more successful. Viewing figures have actually be dropping recently.

What annoys me is RTD trying to rewrite history by claiming the show wasn't SF? Pardon me, but Dr Who was for 20 odd years regarded as a classic SF TV show - it was written about in SF magazines, spawned a series of SF books, and two SF films. It was even "looked down" upon by a lot of the mainstream press for being SF...

[MarcMorris]

I tend to see Dr Who not as sci-fi but more as horror - principally, horror of the unknown. It's the horror elements that scare the kids, not the sci-fi.

[WillHay]

I tend to see Dr Who not as sci-fi but more as horror - principally, horror of the unknown. It's the horror elements that scare the kids, not the sci-fi.

Yes, it did tend to jump around - Genesis of the Daleks, Logopolis, Leisure Hive, etc are very much SF, whereas Fang Rock, Fendahl, etc are mainly horror. I watched Genesis recently and was quite surprised at how powerful it still seems. When I was a nipper I didn't actually understand quite a lot of it.

Some mixed elements - Planet of Evil is big monsters, but also quite SF in theme with its Anti-matter beasts. Stones of Blood was also mixed, using horror at first then becoming an SF story and linking the two.

[drterror666]

I think the problem is that RTD is trying to recreate the 'off the wall' atmosphere of the Hartnell/Troughton eras, without the 'school teacher' Doctor character. Back in those days, the stories were quite loose and the viewing public were there for the scares, not the plot, whether it be sci fi or horror or just plain 'out there' (The Mind Robber, anyone?)

The question is: does it work in today's society? From the viewing figures, it would have to be a resounding 'yes', even though a number of the Whovian hardcore have been alienated. I for one am still not sure what to make of this series.

[suzi gina]

I will only be watching this because of the promise of more Daleks. It'll be interesting to know how there are more Daleks, when the one in Dalek was supposed to be the last one.

Dont forget that the show deals with time travel. Just because the last Dalek was killed today, doesnt mean that the Doctor cannot go back to last week, when there were hundreds of the daleks still roaming the galaxy.

According to Teletext yesterday, the Cybermen are going to be making a re-appearance in two episodes in next years season

[drterror666]

I see where you're going, what with the wacky world of time travel. So, these Daleks will have existed before the Great Time War (obviously). This presents an interesting paradox: the Doctor destroyed the Dalek race, but the Daleks could still try to kill him in the past! But, if the Doctor is killed in the Dalek's past history, how did he eradicate their race? Time lines, huh! You gotta love 'em!

It's nice to know the Cybermen will be returning.

[drterror666]

I think they're great fun myself.

So, Marc. what is it about this new series that you enjoy so much? Are you a fan from the past? I take it you don't even try to compare the old with the new?

Just interested...

[MarcMorris]

Sure I'm a fan, but not an obsessive fan. I grew up with Dr Who - first it was Patrick Troughton, and this lasted until I got tired of the series when Tom Baker transformed into Peter Davison. But then I was more into music and clubbing than staying in and watching the TV.

I always try hard not to compare old with new. I like to see what direction the writers and sfx guys can take things - in this case they had to come up with something new and entertaining - and they were under a great deal of pressure to make something that would be successful, and at the same time not upset the legion of fans.

I think they've succeeded.

[christats]

I started watching towards the end of the John Pertwee era,and then most of the Tom Baker.
Didn't really care for Peter Davidson,as he had been in All Creatures and I viewed him as an actor for old farts.Nothing against him,I have watched him in other stuff and enjoyed it.
I have recently been watching the Key to time R1 set and one or two of these Tom Baker Stories are a bit ropey,so the past ain't all perfect.
If I was judgeing I would say this series features a Doctor who is number 5 in the list of the 10 who played him so not too bad.
I think that picking on a series for featuring council estate situations is a bit unfair,what do we expect to see;Herds of wandering Wildebeasts.

[WillHay]

Dont forget that the show deals with time travel. Just because the last Dalek was killed today, doesnt mean that the Doctor cannot go back to last week, when there were hundreds of the daleks still roaming the galaxy.

According to Teletext yesterday, the Cybermen are going to be making a re-appearance in two episodes in next years season

Yeah, they'll mince!

[christats]

Do you mean they will chop meat into little pieces.?

[christats]

Just watched boom town,a RTD penned Episode :eek:
It didn't disappoint.T'was rubbish,but I still like the series overall.
At least there was only 1 slitheen left.Bye bye farters.

[WillHay]

Just watched boom town,a RTD penned Episode :eek:
It didn't disappoint.T'was rubbish,but I still like the series overall.
At least there was only 1 slitheen left.Bye bye farters.

Yeah, a terrible story - badly written as per usual with RTD.

[Grant]

Did u see the daleks though? I'm so excited! :D

Grant :)

[christats]

Yes.The fact that there are lots again makes me think that whoever battles them is going to be obliterated.
That a solitary dalek can almost wipe out an high security underground bunker,without batting a plunger and given its increased abilities then how can anything wipe out an army of them.
Maybe a weak point is found and going off RTD'S previous stories they will be allergic to washing powder or fairy liquid. :confused:

[drterror666]

Are these the 'hidden' nest of Daleks who weren't on Skaro when it was destroyed, weren't near Gallifrey when the Doctor ignited the sun and just happened not to hear the 'last' Daleks distress signal? According to one gutter press snooze paper, there are going to be 500,000 Daleks, all in battleships and all heading for dear, old Earth.

Can RTD not f**k this one up, please?

Oh, and I couldn't bear to watch the Boomtown episode, and it doesn't look like I missed much.

[Mojo]

Saw a photo in one of the rags over the weekend from the upcoming two - parter, showing a room ( spaceship? ) full of literally hundreds of gold Daleks. Looks pretty damn impressive!

It's also been confirmed that the Cybermen will definitely return in a two - parter in the next series. They were always my favourite monster, so I'm really looking forward to how they'll be 'reinvented'. :)

[christats]

Better than the rag I was reading,this showed a picture of a robot Anne Robinson on the weakest link and said something about the Doctor going in the big brother house,so whoever mentioned it a few posts ago was right :eek:
Maybe the daleks can follow him in and fry'em.Pity this is make believe.
Apparently according to Wilhay the Cybermen will mince,so they now have the power to chop meat.

[Grant]

Probably inspired by that scene in the Exterminator, can't wait for that one!

Grant :)

[Mojo]

Apparently according to Wilhay the Cybermen will mince,so they now have the power to chop meat.

Or perhaps they will 'butcher' a lot of people.

The Ann Robinson robot is a bit worrying. It's more the second part of the story I'm looking forward to. Fingers crossed...

[WillHay]

Are these the 'hidden' nest of Daleks who weren't on Skaro when it was destroyed, weren't near Gallifrey when the Doctor ignited the sun and just happened not to hear the 'last' Daleks distress signal? According to one gutter press snooze paper, there are going to be 500,000 Daleks, all in battleships and all heading for dear, old Earth.

Can RTD not f**k this one up, please?

Oh, and I couldn't bear to watch the Boomtown episode, and it doesn't look like I missed much.

No, you didn't. RTD excelled himself with atrocious storylines, invisible plotting and some toe curling dialogue of the first degree. Oh, and he managed to throw in a lot of plot devices and deus ex machina as well.

[Mojo]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. I liked the way it started off a bit 'light' then got darker as the episode went on. Really well written and directed IMO.

Great to hear the 'heartbeat' sound of the Dalek spaceship. And the 'voice' at the end of next week's trailer. It is who I think it is, isn't it?..... :)

[WillHay]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. I liked the way it started off a bit 'light' then got darker as the episode went on. Really well written and directed IMO.

Great to hear the 'heartbeat' sound of the Dalek spaceship. And the 'voice' at the end of next week's trailer. It is who I think it is, isn't it?..... :)

Sadly, I missed it - went to the pub instead!

[Grant]

Cracking episode, loved every moment. Eccleston was brilliant in this one!

Grant :)

[christats]

I still think Russell T Davies's style is at odds with Doctor Who.Having said that this was the best one he has written.
Not brilliant,but taken as a parody of what infests television then it worked for me.

[drterror666]

I watched last night's episode expecting a big pile of RTD s***e, but instead was really glad I tuned in. This is more like it! This is what I hope RTD can throw at us in the second season. I agree with Mojo, it started off light and just got darker as it went on. The revelation as to what the Doctor may have started 500 years previous was excellent. As for Jack, well, this guy has to stay in the series. He embodies the 'old school' action hero well, and is becoming really likeable. Plus, kudos from me for blasting Trinny and Susannah's heads off! :)

Of course, the Daleks were the main pull for me, and the Doctor's interaction with them was brilliant, some great acting from Christopher Eccleston. So, who's the 'Bad Wolf' then? Could it be Davros? I thought he was blown to bits in Rememberance Of The Daleks? I suppose they could have resurrected him somehow.

Anyway, this stands as my second favourite episode, Dalek being the first, and I really, really can't wait for next week's episode, which is how it should be! :cool:

[mr hyde]

Yes it was a good episode, very enjoyable.

[James Lee]

Davros does appear in the 8th Doctor novel War Of The Daleks. Can't remember his fate but he always kept popping up after being "killed"

6th Doctor: The last time we met, your ship blew up. I thought with you on board.
Davros: Not when there is an escape pod at hand!

See what I mean?

[WillHay]

I still think Russell T Davies's style is at odds with Doctor Who.Having said that this was the best one he has written.
Not brilliant,but taken as a parody of what infests television then it worked for me.

I agree. I think RTD's attempt at Dr Who has resulted in a virtual parody. However, I enjoyed Bad Wolf (Got round to watching it today.). Plotting is still terrible - he just can't do it - and the whole "Oh she's not really dead" thing has been done before, and the transmat was just another terrible device to get Billy across to the Dalek ship... Really poor stuff, but typical of RTD. Oh, and the the TARDIS "happened" to work out what was going on. Why oh why can't he put together a plot that actually makes sense? It's almost like he's making it up as he goes along.

[christats]

I think you are being a bit harsh.When I said parody I was refering to the mickey taking of reality TV.
Alot of the old stories didn't make sense either.
The problem with Russel T Davies is that the ones penned by him stand out,as it turns into a similar trendy comedy drama like his previous programmes.
Yes some of the dialogue is crap,some of the ideas come across as convenient quick solution to wind up a situation.
I think half the series has been good and half very average.Its not been a waste of time and could have been worse.

[drterror666]

I was thinking about RTD's plotting and I came to the conclusion that it must be hard to cram all those ideas into a 45 or 90 minute show, without making some sacrifices. If the episodes were 4 - 6 parts long, then maybe RTD could introduce some more intracacies into the plot, but, according to RTD, viewers don't want long stories anymore. I expect the destruction of the new Dalek fleet is going to p**s WillHay off big time!!! :D

I also wondered if the 'last' Dalek actually committed suicide. Just say it went back in time (because, conveniently, they can) and warned part of the Dalek fleet attacking Gallifrey about what was to come. They could have conveniently hidden their ships until it was time to come out again. But, that's probably too intricate for RTD. :D

I'm quite eager to find out how this Bad Wolf thing ties into everything, though. What was the point on spying on the Doctor? Why didn't the Daleks just annihilate everything on Earth? We've seen what 1 Dalek can do, imagine what 500,000 of the b*****ds could achieve, not to mention the power those large battleships must have. Why wait 500 years? I'm sure all these questions may be answered next Saturday.

I think too much! :D

[WillHay]

I was thinking about RTD's plotting and I came to the conclusion that it must be hard to cram all those ideas into a 45 or 90 minute show, without making some sacrifices. If the episodes were 4 - 6 parts long, then maybe RTD could introduce some more intracacies into the plot, but, according to RTD, viewers don't want long stories anymore. I expect the destruction of the new Dalek fleet is going to p**s WillHay off big time!!! :D

I also wondered if the 'last' Dalek actually committed suicide. Just say it went back in time (because, conveniently, they can) and warned part of the Dalek fleet attacking Gallifrey about what was to come. They could have conveniently hidden their ships until it was time to come out again. But, that's probably too intricate for RTD. :D

I'm quite eager to find out how this Bad Wolf thing ties into everything, though. What was the point on spying on the Doctor? Why didn't the Daleks just annihilate everything on Earth? We've seen what 1 Dalek can do, imagine what 500,000 of the b*****ds could achieve, not to mention the power those large battleships must have. Why wait 500 years? I'm sure all these questions may be answered next Saturday.

I think too much! :D

Maybe. However, RTD seems happy to waste time with crumby jokes and then resolve a whole plot with a deus ex machina - he did it in Boom Town, and he did it in Bad Wolf - "Oh, the TARDIS worked it out." How about, erm, having your characters work it out? Provide them with the plot to be able to do that. It's a weakness that wasn't evidence in The Unquiet Dead, Empty Child, Dalek or Father's Day.

It's lazy writing. Nothing to do with length IMHO. Where did Jack get that gun from? The whole scene resolved with a gun from his arse? Absolutely terrible. Cut out the rubbish jokes and let the characters get themselves out of the situations!

[christats]

Didn't Jack do it A-Team stylee and build the gun out of bits of dead Trinny and Susannah.
For its flaws it was an entertaining episode.I wasn't overly keen on the fathers Day Episode it was just a soap opera with monsters clinging to a church.
Dalek,Unquiet Dead,most of the Empty Child and the last episode have been the highlights so far.I agree as most of us seem too.

[WillHay]

Didn't Jack do it A-Team stylee and build the gun out of bits of dead Trinny and Susannah.
For its flaws it was an entertaining episode.I wasn't overly keen on the fathers Day Episode it was just a soap opera with monsters clinging to a church.
Dalek,Unquiet Dead,most of the Empty Child and the last episode have been the highlights so far.I agree as most of us seem too.

I meant the gun he used to shoot the robots - it just appeared from somewhere. Then he did the dreadful A -team thing.

Yes, I found it entertaining, and not as bad as other RTD stuff, but it pales when compared to the ones you mention. I thought Father's Day was terrible as well.

[Phill]

I think I know who BAD WOLF is :D Infact I reckon I've got it sussed... :D

[christats]

I remember Davros in the old series,he was blind but had a sensor/eye in the middle of his forehead.
Now maybe I am putting 2 and 2 and making 5 but Adam was returned home with a modification to his forehead.Maybe he is building a Dalek army up out of all the people that are kidnapped/zapped as the original creatures are extinct.
What this has got to do with Bad Wolf I am not completely sure,as there are references all over the place.
Thats one of the reason's this episode worked,its one of the few which has a cliffhanger and shows that a story over two or more episodes is better than a 45 min story.
If I am right about davros then sorry but I am only guessing.

[Phill]

SNAP!!! Chris the eye in the forehead is surely a giveaway!

[WillHay]

I remember Davros in the old series,he was blind but had a sensor/eye in the middle of his forehead.
Now maybe I am putting 2 and 2 and making 5 but Adam was returned home with a modification to his forehead.Maybe he is building a Dalek army up out of all the people that are kidnapped/zapped as the original creatures are extinct.
What this has got to do with Bad Wolf I am not completely sure,as there are references all over the place.
Thats one of the reason's this episode worked,its one of the few which has a cliffhanger and shows that a story over two or more episodes is better than a 45 min story.
If I am right about davros then sorry but I am only guessing.

I do hope not. Terry Nation's Genesis of the Daleks was a superb story and the daleks' background was in the Thal/Kaled war. If RTD does this, then he's pretty much destroying one of the strongest stories in the whole series.

Remember, Terry Nation's estate are keeping quite an eye on how his creations are used - I would have thought they would not allow this to happen.

[zanner]

who's gonna be the next doc then... :confused: ...zanner.

[suzi gina]

And the 'voice' at the end of next week's trailer. It is who I think it is, isn't it?..... :)

Yes. It is Michael Grade - the controller of BBC1 who cancelled the show in 1989 for the simple reason that he didnt like it!

[WillHay]

who's gonna be the next doc then... :confused: ...zanner.

David Tennant has been confirmed as the next Doctor.

Next season has less of RTD and more of the other writers.
So I'm looking forward to it - this year has been a mixed bag, from utterly medicore (Boom town, Slitheen) to excellent.

[drterror666]

Yes. It is Michael Grade - the controller of BBC1 who cancelled the show in 1989 for the simple reason that he didnt like it!

Very cutting, suzi, your sarcasm is welcome here! :D

[drterror666]

My money's still on Davros. He always managed to escape somehow. I'd love to see how they would reimagine him.

They guy with the opening forehead is a good guess, but this Bad Wolf thing has been happening since the beginning of the show, when he wasn't around. I'm expecting an elaborate explanation, if RTD is capable!

[christats]

When a story so heavily depends on Time Travel,lots of things go by unexplained and not making sense.
The Bad wolf thing going on from the start of the series dosn't mean that stuff in the last episode couldn't be the source of it all,as the last episode might be events that happened before episode 1 :confused:
I also am starting to have doubts about my Davros hunch,because of the character protection by the original creators.
If thats the case though why did they let Sylvester McCoy and Bonnie Langford happen.
I can't wait for Saturday,I hope its not a let down.

[Mojo]

My money's on Davros, too ( I hope so ). It's been hinted at a few times in interviews.

I also saw a clip from next Saturday's episode, featuring the 'off-screen' voice saying to the Doc " I am the god of all Daleks!"
Surely it can't be anyone else?
Can it?...

[mr hyde]

Well,it sounds like the last episode is going to be one of the best.

[drterror666]

I was reading that this episode is top secret and had multiple scenes filmed so people wouldn't guess. Roll on Saturday, I can't wait!

[drterror666]

Who is the Bad Wolf (http://www.badwolf.org.uk/)? :confused:

[drterror666]

WillHay, don't read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4098270.stm)! ;)

[mr hyde]

Well,What an excellent last episode. I thought so anyway.

[WillHay]

Well,What an excellent last episode. I thought so anyway.

I thought it was rather poor. Contrived plot, and another deus ex machina.
Lazy, lazy, lazy - what a terrible way to end a story "Oh, I've got superpowers".

Poor, and disappointing, as I _liked_ Bad Wolf. THis was just back to RTD's typical mess of soap opera (The Earth stuff was Corny as hell.) and scenes nicked from elsewhere before a terrible ending.

[christats]

Got to agree unfortunatly.Of the scenarios they could have gone with,they picked the blandest possible.They don't seem to know how to end a story.
Davros whizzing about would have been better than a static Emperor Dalek.
At least I guessed the bit about the human Dna,well kind of.
I still liked it more than what else was on TV at the time though.

[Grant]

Compared to anything on tv this series shined out. Will certainly miss Eccleston but looking forward to christmas..

Grant :)

[drterror666]

What a bloody cop out! I could almost imagine a dark score playing in the future as the Daleks invaded Earth and then a dingly ice cream man tone when we cut back to Earth, where our traumatic trio were trying to work out what to do. I think that would have been great! :rolleyes:

So, if I've got this right, the heart of the TARDIS was Bad Wolf, yes? Er, why Bad Wolf? Why have it plastered everywhere through time? Can someone tell me the point because I obviously missed it! Plus, I'm with WillHay, with Rose doing her impression of Pheonix era Jean Gray! WTF?!!! That has to be one of the biggest letdowns ever!

Oh, and one of the Dalek saucers just happened to be damaged (just one, mind) and ended up near Earth just after the Doctor had left Space Station 5 the first time around. Then, by some means or another, the Dalek Emperor (who's ship it was, as it happened) managed to get these games twisted so that it would recieve fresh humans via transmat ready to turn into Daleks. 500 years later and there're 500,000 Daleks and 200 Dalek saucers. Boom, boom!

I'm supposed to ingest this feeble garbage am I? :mad:

The only plus points were:

1) Ann Droid getting her head blown off;
2) Lots of people getting massacred by Daleks;
3) The acting, which I thought was quite good;
4) The Doctor regenerating into an 80's punk frontman;
5) Er,...

Can't wait for the Xmas episode! :rolleyes:

[drterror666]

Oh, yes, one more post before I leave. Your souraway Scum had some 'facts' about the future of Doctor Who:

1) Elizabeth Sladen is ready to reprise her roll as Sarah Jane Smith;
2) Er, and K9 is coming back!!! :eek:

Please, somebody shoot RTD before this mess gets even worse!

[christats]

What is also unfair is why did the Doctor get new teeth,and Rose didn't.Jack had the laser bazooka gun in the Tardis which decimated a Dalek with 1 shot when it was accidentally let in.
So why was he and every one else using ordinary machine guns which seemed as effective as pea shooters.With all that technology around why no laser's. :confused:

[WillHay]

Compared to anything on tv this series shined out. Will certainly miss Eccleston but looking forward to christmas..

Grant :)

Without the Dr Who name this feeble mess wouldn't even have a prime time slot - it'd be stuck on kid's TV.

[Mojo]

I'm with most people on this - it was a bit of a 'jumbled' episode at times ( I preferred last week's ). It was enjoyable, but could have been better. Davros would have been brilliant.

All in all, I've really enjoyed this series. It must be incredibly difficult to pitch the series and get it right for everybody. Chris Eccleston has been terrific and I've enjoyed all the stories ( apart from 'The End Of The World', which was bloody awful ).

As for the next series, let's have more variety of writers, make it more scary and perhaps some of the flaws people are saying here could be ironed out. I saw David Tennant in the Beeb's live remake of 'The Quatermass Xperiment' and he was excellent. Looking forward to his Doc and the return of the Cybermen. As for the return of K9 - **** OFF! If RTD is as big a fan as he says, he'll know it was a crap idea then and it'll be a crap idea now. Forget it.

It'll never be perfect for everyone, but all in all, really enjoyable it. Looking forward to the next.

[Grant]

Without the Dr Who name this feeble mess wouldn't even have a prime time slot - it'd be stuck on kid's TV

Well the 'feeble mess' did that well in the ratings that another two seasons and two xmas eps have been scheduled :D

Lets face it, this the program updated for 21st century audiences, the older style would be hopelessly out of date now. Still I'll agree to disagree with ya Will, I wouldn't say all the eps were perfect but entertaining - yeah.

Grant :)

[christats]

Has anyone seen "Kids" TV recently.
The main thing I have with the program is the inconsistency with solutions to problems.Probably a issue that the old Doctor Who series suffered from.
Like I mentioned the daleks can be taken out with a laser cannon,but they chose to fight with machine guns.The slitheens explode when bleach or whatever household product makes them explode.
So why didn't the Doctor slip a bottle up his arm as an insurance policy if things went wrong when he met the MP for Cardiff.
Billie Piper can absorb all the energy but it kills someone with a brain the size of a planet.Or at least she lasted longer than him.There were others.
Also I can hardly remember when any genuine tension built up.
Apart from that it was watchable entertainment.

[WillHay]

Well the 'feeble mess' did that well in the ratings that another two seasons and two xmas eps have been scheduled :D

Lets face it, this the program updated for 21st century audiences, the older style would be hopelessly out of date now. Still I'll agree to disagree with ya Will, I wouldn't say all the eps were perfect but entertaining - yeah.

Grant :)

Utter rot - the technical way a show is made is just sugar coating - the real greatness behind any show or film lies with the scripts and storytelling. You can fill it with as much CGI as you want, but if the story is rubbish, it's still a rubbish episode. They could remake "Genesis of the Daleks" and it would still be excellent, with CGI & "trendy" camerawork.

However, a duff script that relies on plot devices and slapstick will always be duff.

[christats]

Willhay,would you rather have no Doctor Who?,this is the worst series ever is it.?
Paul McGann with his strange wig and and Syvester MacKoy gurning were worse.Its a step in the right direction."The only way is up" to quote the philospher Yazz.

[WillHay]

Willhay,would you rather have no Doctor Who?,this is the worst series ever is it.?
Paul McGann with his strange wig and and Syvester MacKoy gurning were worse.Its a step in the right direction."The only way is up" to quote the philospher Yazz.

This new series takes up where McCoy left off - if this is the direction it is going in, then I'd rather it curled up and died now. Having said that, I think I'd rather watch the McCoy stuff than rubbish like "Boom Town" or "THe PArting of Ways"

I didn't hate it all - just the RTD stuff. It's rather incredible that someone who seems to be unable to string a plot together has got so far.

[Mojo]

I agree with Christats here. I think some people seem to forget how terrible some Dr Who was even in its 'prime'.

l Ioved the very early Pertwee stories, the Tom Baker horror stuff and some of the Peter Davision and Colin Baker stories. I also really enjoy some of the William Hartnell / Pat Troughton stuff. It's never been a constantly perfect series ( what is? )

Some of the latter day Tom Baker stories were terrible - if it wasn't for Tom Baker himself carrying the stories, they would have been unwatchable. All of the McCoy era was awful.

It's never going to be a series that pleases everyone, but I do think, for a 'first' series, it's been bloody good.
:)

[WillHay]

I agree with Christats here. I think some people seem to forget how terrible some Dr Who was even in its 'prime'.

l Ioved the very early Pertwee stories, the Tom Baker horror stuff and some of the Peter Davision and Colin Baker stories. I also really enjoy some of the William Hartnell / Pat Troughton stuff. It's never been a constantly perfect series ( what is? )

Some of the latter day Tom Baker stories were terrible - if it wasn't for Tom Baker himself carrying the stories, they would have been unwatchable. All of the McCoy era was awful.

It's never going to be a series that pleases everyone, but I do think, for a 'first' series, it's been bloody good.
:)

Well yes, most of McCoy was rubbish, as was most of Colin Baker's era - but the rest was mainly good, and even when it was bad, it wasn't as bad as some of the juvenile rubbish we've just seen. At the very least it usually had a coherent, and well rounded plot - unlike some of the rubbish that we've seen, which is frankly amateurish, juvenile trash.

[will graham]

Well I grew up watching the Mcoy Doctor and I thought it was the best thing on tv at the time, yes now that I have grown up I can see that it wasen't all that great but I still look back and compared to what else was on offer I still think it was the best UK produced programme of that time. I also think that The Curse Of Fenric is one of the best Doctor stories and was unfairly judged because of who the doctor was at the time.

RTD did do a good tv show called Century Falls, it was on kids tv but it seemed to be aimed at a more mature audience, no jokes and very scary if it ever comes out on DVD I recommend it as it was perhaps the best uk genre series of the last 15 years.

If you saw Century Falls and his other kids programme Dark Season you can see that RTD was the best choice to do Doctor Who. It's just such a shame that he screwed it up.

I have enjoyed this series but like most of you I found RTD's stories not very good (aside from Bad Wolf) and if I realised Boomtown was going to be that boring I would have not bothered watching it. He seems to just be beliveing that Queer As Folk and everything post that is his best work. And I'm very angry at what he did to the Daleks making them belive in god, to me it was just him getting at those who believe in religion, I do not want to see that ever again in doctor who.

I would like it if the BBC asked the kids that watch Doctor Who what they're favourite episodes were, just to see if RTD stories were their favourites or the opposite since the show was targeted at them.

I like Billy and I'm glad that she is back, I also liked the Jack character and really hope that he appears again and I hope to god that we never have to see Rose's mum again or her boyfriend (unless they get killed off).

Overall a good show and was the best thing on and even if you didn't like it look on the bright side, Realty shows ratings are down and a sucess like this means more drama (please no more police shows or muder mysteries) and hopefully more homegrown scifi/horror. I'm happy

[mattclarkson]

I was a massive Doctor Who fan as a kid,loved it-even though it was the Colin Baker&Sylvester Mccoy eras.I watched the reruns of the Hartnell,Troughton,Pertwee,Baker&Davidson on UKTv Gold.Loved it all.

I was a little worried that the new series was going to be utter toss to be honest,but with Christopher Eccleston in it was worth a punt-admittedly,the first few episodes were a bit ropey,but it got better.

You have to remember that the show has been reinvented for the 21st century-making it int the style it was wouldve killed it off for good.

I think RTD has done a fine job updating and reintroducing Doctor Who to the world.

I think one of the plus point with the series is that at least you dont have to put up with four part stories that you dont like-which happened quite alot in the old series.

I think David Tennant will be ace as the Doctor-anyone who has Quartermass or Casanova will know that.

I hope that Doctor Who will run and run-its definately been the highlight of my weekend.

Ive read on either this forum or some other that one poster said the new doctor who is the worst sci-fi they had ever seen-have they ever seen Stargate SG-1 or Battlestar Galactica?

[drterror666]

Ive read on either this forum or some other that one poster said the new doctor who is the worst sci-fi they had ever seen-have they ever seen Stargate SG-1 or Battlestar Galactica?

I can't say much for Battlestar Galactica because I haven't seen the new series, but let's not knock Stargate SG-1! That series is the highlight of my week when they show it on Channel 4; the episodes can truly be edge of the seat stuff and the character interaction is brilliant. I know some of the plots can be a little loose, but the way some of the episodes are interwoven is great stuff. I can't wait for the next series.

But, I digress...

I think the way Doctor Who is at the moment is the way it's going to be. RTD has created something that is loose on the brain cells, but full of all the things that a popcorn audience want to see. Just look at those viewing figures! I know I haven't been too keen on the new series, but then I'm used to what has been and gone, and I think my whole attitude is too picky. I will continue to watch this series and am looking forward to David Tennent ham it up as the new Doctor.

[Neil B]

I really enjoyed the new series but thought it could have done with some scenes shot in a gravel pit to give it that classic Dr Who feel :D

[drterror666]

Anybody who wants to see just how much of a success Doctor Who has been should read this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4106476.stm).

Oh, and the final episode only managed to pull in 6.2m viewers. Here's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4108472.stm) the excuse!

[Grant]

Their already teasing about the Christmas special - seems like it may have been a success!

Grant :)

[drterror666]

I thought the Daleks were going to be in the Xmas special, but that's going to be a bit impossible now. Maybe the Slitheen are back! :eek: :D

[sweenytodd]

I have never been a Dr Who fan but I enjoyed this series.
Oh right, just me then.................

[drterror666]

Yeah, but, sabre, the fact that you enjoyed the series means that RTD did his job properly. I think me being the hardcore Whovian I used to be put me in the wrong frame of mind with the series. Next time, I'll just have to see it in the light it was meant to be seen.

[tigon]

here goes a doctor who fan since around 1978......

firstly eccleston was notthat good he is around number 5 on the all time doctors list, at times he was just plain crap.

as for the series, it was good, very good indeed the plots were somties made simple but at least they the interest of the viewer.

Overall, its nice to have the oldboy back on such form

[WillHay]

Yeah, but, sabre, the fact that you enjoyed the series means that RTD did his job properly. I think me being the hardcore Whovian I used to be put me in the wrong frame of mind with the series. Next time, I'll just have to see it in the light it was meant to be seen.

It's dumbed down trash aimed at folks who are only interested in a flashy effects scenes and don't care about story.

[sweenytodd]

As I said..........'just me then'
I am truly sorry I am so thick and easily pleased but it is possible to be entertained without dissecting the minutae of the thing you know.
Dont be so judgmental, I am entitled to my opinion without being slagged off by some nomark who thinks he knows me...You Dont and you have no idea of the extent of my experience and knowledge. What a sad life you must lead !

[WillHay]

As I said..........'just me then'
I am truly sorry I am so thick and easily pleased but it is possible to be entertained without dissecting the minutae of the thing you know.
Dont be so judgmental, I am entitled to my opinion without being slagged off by some nomark who thinks he knows me...You Dont and you have no idea of the extent of my experience and knowledge. What a sad life you must lead !

Don't be so cretinous - believe it or not it _is_ possible to make an entertaining TV show that doesn't have such poorly written plots as those provided by Mr RTD in the Dr Who show. Plots so thin and poorly executed that they are filled up with chase scenes & jokes to prevent the viewer from noticing.

Fine. You enjoyed a bunch of action scenes. I'm very happy for you. Did you not notice that your intelligence was being roundly insulted by RTD's continued use of Deus Ex Machina & poor plot devices? Or maybe you like being written down to.

[drterror666]

Yes, but, WillHay, you have to understand that a large amount of people actually want to see this sort of stuff at 7:00 on a Saturday night. I began to 'get' it towards the end of the series when I realised I had to switch my brain off and just go with the flow. I was still disappointed by the finale, but there you go.

It's not fair to have a go at other members if they did enjoy the series on some level, although I don't believe it was your intention to insult (at least, I hope not). I think you have to make a choice here: you either watch the series on its own merits or you give up with it. Surely, watching the series for the sake of it is a bit masochist?

I await the next series (after the Christmas Invasion, of course) and hope that most of the scripts will raise the bar a bit.

[WillHay]

Yes, but, WillHay, you have to understand that a large amount of people actually want to see this sort of stuff at 7:00 on a Saturday night. I began to 'get' it towards the end of the series when I realised I had to switch my brain off and just go with the flow. I was still disappointed by the finale, but there you go.

It's not fair to have a go at other members if they did enjoy the series on some level, although I don't believe it was your intention to insult (at least, I hope not). I think you have to make a choice here: you either watch the series on its own merits or you give up with it. Surely, watching the series for the sake of it is a bit masochist?

I await the next series (after the Christmas Invasion, of course) and hope that most of the scripts will raise the bar a bit.

Yes, I was probably a bit heavy handed - not offence was intended.

However, I still find this "switch my brain off" justification for TV & Film these days to be a rather baffling. Are we just willing to accept _anything_ and then justify it on the grounds that it's mindless entertainment?

The Old Dr Who was entertaining, yet managed to not insult its audience with deus ex machina, poor plots (Well, until the last few years, and even then it was sincere - RTD just comes across as wanting to take the mickey.). It was hardly high-brow stuff as well. I find Genesis of the Daleks just as entertaining as The Unqiuet Dead.

[christats]

I liked half the series,and thought half was poor.To dismiss it as mickey taking poor sci-fi is harsh.
When you compare it to the state of TV programs generally,it is the best of a bad bunch.
If it was more high brow kids wouldn't watch it and alot of adults would loose attention.
More gory and frightening and it would be on later,which I would prefer but you would loose half the audience.
No-one will replace Tom Baker,but if RTD writes less episodes and they work out end stories properly then its going to be a good second series.

[sweenytodd]

'Cretinous' - Dictionary definition, A deformed or mentally retarded person.
And this was just for stating my opinion. I wasnt asking anyone to agree with me just accept that I was entitled to it. As Mark Twain said 'I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'
Why be so offensive because I dare to have a different opinion from yourself.
What happened to reasoned debate and intelligent discussion ? And what is so wrong about just being 'entertained', it dos'nt make you 'mentally retarded'
just to sit back and enjoy something occasionally.
We are talking about a childrens tv programme here, its not meant to be Ibsen or Shakespeare.

[WillHay]

'Cretinous' - Dictionary definition, A deformed or mentally retarded person.
And this was just for stating my opinion. I wasnt asking anyone to agree with me just accept that I was entitled to it. As Mark Twain said 'I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'
Why be so offensive because I dare to have a different opinion from yourself.
What happened to reasoned debate and intelligent discussion ? And what is so wrong about just being 'entertained', it dos'nt make you 'mentally retarded'
just to sit back and enjoy something occasionally.
We are talking about a childrens tv programme here, its not meant to be Ibsen or Shakespeare.

Well Dr Who isn't a kids' show, it's family entertainment/drama, just as it was in the 1970s. Of course, if you want to justify its being about as intelligent as a Scooby Doo cartoon, then that's fine. You're probably right. However, the BBC should put it on at 5:00 on Thursday instead of 7:00 Saturday.

There's nothing wrong with being "entertained", but there is something slightly worrying when people are willing to frankly ignore that something it quite badly done purely for self gratification. The new Star Wars film is the same - dreadfully written & poorly directed, but OK if you want to "turn your brain off" - how anyone can turn their brain off and ignore such atrocious dialogue, terrible plotting is beyond me.

Shakespeare? Have you actually _read_ any Shakespeare? It's pretty simplistic stuff, to be honest, once you get beyond the language (Which is quite incredibly imaginitive at times.) MacBeth is a good old fashioned story about witches and curses and a battleaxe wife.

[sweenytodd]

It still however remains MY opinion and one to which I am fully entitled and nothing you can ever say can detract from that, however much spin you put on it.

[drterror666]

Yes, WillHay, I have read Shakespeare. I have also watched it on the TV and at the theatre. In fact, I have a wide range of literary interests, I read and write poetry and I still manage to enjoy Die Hard and the Rambo trilogy! It all depends on what mood I'm in at the time.

My overall feeling concerning Doctor Who is mixed. I enjoyed the series more when it was darker and had less of the slapstick comedy element, which is why I couldn't watch anything featuring the Slitheen family. But, I have to admit to myself that the series is being aimed at a completely different audience. Isn't it good that families are sitting down to the same programme together at 7:00 on a Saturday night?

I agree with you that the quality of the writing and plot progression has taken a sharp dive in places, but maybe this can be worked on in the new series? I will still boycott those episodes that I know are going to be crap!

[CJ34]

However, I still find this "switch my brain off" justification for TV & Film these days to be a rather baffling. Are we just willing to accept _anything_ and then justify it on the grounds that it's mindless entertainment?
Hmmmm....so the exploitation fare of the 70's (some of which is the domain of both the UK and US branches of Anchor Bay) really stretches the brain cells then...? If we're talking older films from the golden era of horror cinema, then I'll have to revisit The Mighty Gorga and Blood Feast and look for the profound dialogue and philosophical messages contained therein.

C'mon, WillHay, since when was visual media anything other than mindless entertainment for the masses, with the odd exception..?

[WillHay]

Hmmmm....so the exploitation fare of the 70's (some of which is the domain of both the UK and US branches of Anchor Bay) really stretches the brain cells then...? If we're talking older films from the golden era of horror cinema, then I'll have to revisit The Mighty Gorga and Blood Feast and look for the profound dialogue and philosophical messages contained therein.

C'mon, WillHay, since when was visual media anything other than mindless entertainment for the masses, with the odd exception..?

For crying out loud - I never once said that it had to philosophical or deep in any way. What I have said is that RTD's plots are terrible, and he resorts to deus ex machina endings on numerous occasions because he's too lazy or unimaginitive to come up with well formed plots. If you're willing to sit through 40 minutes of a story, only to have the whole thing blown in a "Oh look, here comes the hand of God to save the day" and not be annoyed, then your standards are lower than mine.

Stephen King called this sort of stuff "cheating the reader" (Or viewer). THAT is what I'm talking about. It's the sort of stuff kids do when they write English essays at school and don't really understand plotting and storytelling.

It may be exploitatitive fare, but HG Lewis didn't have to resort to deus ex-machina endings for any of his films (And no, I don't like them much either!) nor did Pete Walker, and a whole host of other exploitation movie makers.

Neither, for than matter, did the writers of the GOOD Dr Who episodes in the new series.

[CJ34]

Hang on a minute there, WillHay - not once in my post did I say that RTD's writing was any good. I was responding directly to your point about 'mindless entertainment', and I was simply pointing out that, for the most part, film and TV has always been designed for mass entertainment, which usually means appealing to the lowest common denominator. That's why exploitation quickies simply piled on the gore and naked flesh to turn a fast buck - these days, as you say, it's flash effects and rapid editing. But the principle is the same - appealing to a mass market.

RTD's writing obviously reflects the expectations of audiences of today. We might not think it's particularly good or very well thought out, but I think the viewing figures speak for themselves. His reinvention of Dr Who has certainly brought him success, however much we may like or dislike that. He obviously understands todays audiences better than we do. It may well be lazy writing, but I don't think he's complaining, considering the fat paycheck he's no doubt receiving...

Personally, I'm old school Dr Who all the way. Nothing beats the Pertwee/Baker years for me.

[WillHay]

Hang on a minute there, WillHay - not once in my post did I say that RTD's writing was any good. I was responding directly to your point about 'mindless entertainment', and I was simply pointing out that, for the most part, film and TV has always been designed for mass entertainment, which usually means appealing to the lowest common denominator. That's why exploitation quickies simply piled on the gore and naked flesh to turn a fast buck.

RTD's writing obviously reflects the expectations of audiences of today. We might not think it's particularly good or very well thought out, but I think the viewing figures speak for themselves. His reinvention of Dr Who has certainly brought him success, however much we may like or dislike that. He obviously understands todays audiences better than we do. It may well be lazy writing, but I don't think he's complaining, considering the fat paycheck he's no doubt receiving...

Personally, I'm old school Dr Who all the way. Nothing beats the Pertwee/Baker years for me.

Well, by your logic, they should officially turn Dr Who into a SOAP - after all, they get the highest viewing figures. :)

[drterror666]

I'd argue that the new Doctor Who series was a bit 'soap-like', what with the level of character interaction on display and the looseness of the plots. I think you may have hit on a point there, WillHay, as to why the show was getting such a huge audience on a Saturday. Maybe you've inadvertantly discovered the secret to RTD's writing (lack of) prowess.

At least in the new series there are going to be new writers, including Stephen Fry if I'm to believe what I read!

[WillHay]

I'd argue that the new Doctor Who series was a bit 'soap-like', what with the level of character interaction on display and the looseness of the plots. I think you may have hit on a point there, WillHay, as to why the show was getting such a huge audience on a Saturday. Maybe you've inadvertantly discovered the secret to RTD's writing (lack of) prowess.

At least in the new series there are going to be new writers, including Stephen Fry if I'm to believe what I read!

The viewing figures were OK, but they did drop - some of the soaps were getting double the figures, and Dr Who in the 1970s was much more popular than it was now. (OK, TV was different then.)

Yes, it was very soap like - about Hollyoaks level.

[CJ34]

Well, by your logic, they should officially turn Dr Who into a SOAP - after all, they get the highest viewing figures. :)

I wouldn't exactly call it 'my' logic. I'm just making an observation, that's all.

[Grant]

Hey heres a new look at Tennant as the Doctor (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4710000/newsid_4715300/4715359.stm). Be quick before Will finds out! :D

Grant

[drterror666]

Is it just me or does he look a bit of a prat?

[WillHay]

Is it just me or does he look a bit of a prat?

That's a good start! The Doctor always was a bit of a pratt.

I wouldn't mind, but we're going to be subjected to more of RTD's lousy stories.

[christats]

I was hoping they would go with a sort of Tom Baker look.Training shoes with a suit :eek:
He looks like the nerd out of Goodnight Sweetheart.

[Grant]

Looks a bit Jarvis Cocker to me, but Withnail has also been suggested! :D

Rose: "What on Earth are you doing Doctor?"

Dr: "Making time..." :D

Grant

[!!aaron!!]

I'am a bit embarased to call myself a Dr Who fan after the new glossy sugar coated series,because the actor (i forget his name :) ) which plays the Doctor has no charchter what so ever,he aint funny or whacky i just could not believe this was Dr Who.My tip would have been to get someone like Richard E Grant who has bags of charchter and can act.


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[christats]

Richard E Grant.Back to Withnail then.Gary Sparrow,goodnight sweetheart I was just thinking of the clothes.
I didn't and don't have a problem with the actors.David Tennent seems good in what he's been in.The program and half the scripts have an image/content problem.
Still when the alternative is reality/game shows,then I can put up with it.

[!!aaron!!]

Dr Who is world famous and the BBC should have taken that into account when doing the new series.

Your right about all that celebrity dribble,give us something to remember,that's what I say.


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[drterror666]

I keep saying this, but if the BBC had made a series that would have been 100% 90's Doctor Who it would have died on its arse. This rethinking of the series has been made for Whovians and the general TV viewing public, so comprimises had to be made. Unfortunately, this does appear to have been in the plot advancing department. I think they should have dispensed with the Dr and Rose, and just let the TARDIS sort everything out!

I see the Xmas Invasion is going to involve a new race, who's name I've forgotten. I'm getting 'Slitheen plot style' goosebumps on reading about it, but I'll watch it anyway. I just hope it's not too stupid!

Plus, the BBC have confirmed the return of Elizabeth Sladen reprising her role as supreme screamer and feminist, Sarah Jane Smith! I wonder if she'll be in it for more than one episode? They made no mention of K9, which can only be good news!

Oh, and than there's the Cybermen (yay!), Queen Victoria and, er, killer cat women, cough... :eek:

[Paul D K]

Well, David Tennent can only be better than Eccleston, who turned the DOCTOR into a nasty, sniping bully who I would definately not want to explore the universe with. The fact that he said previous Doctors were "too authoritarian" because of the way they spoke says how much he understood the character.

Still, no matter how good Mr Tennent is in the role it'll take an actor of enormous calibre to make Russell Davies' scripts palatable. I actually watched very few of the new series episodes all the way through, so embarassed was I by what I saw that I only managed to get a few minutes in before I had to turn off and read a book - BOOMTOWN had me crawling up the wall in a way no other series ever has, and no level of deep character probing later on (which there wasn't) can make up for the sub-Buffy antics early in the episode. No wonder the show's popukar with kids - With the exposure of mobile phones and Big Brother, their entire lives have been validated.

For me, DR WHO ended with SURVIVAL and I'll make do with my back-catalogue thank you very much!
Just my opinion so don't hate me for it!

[christats]

Survival,thats a bit generous.Dr Who ended for me when he turned into Sylvester and got lumbered with Bonnie Langford.
I see what the point with Christopher Eccleston was,the best doctors were eccentric and or camp.He wasn't.
The whole slitheen business including boomtoon got alot of peoples backs up it seems,including me.
Maybe Eddie Izzard,Richard O'Brien or Ed Tempole Tudor for Doctor.
Then again a camp writer and a camp performer don't make a right. :eek:

[richward]

Christopher Eccleston had the potential to be one of the best Doctors but I think he was let down by the writing. There was a lot of stuff he was playing that just didn't work for him.

[Mutual Friend]

Nice to see a couple of embittered Doctor Who fans shouting about their grievances. Continually. :rolleyes:

"My tip would have been to get someone like Richard E Grant who has bags of charchter and can act."

Wow, that's a great tip. Except, he's already had a crack at playing the Doctor and was awful - and I don't mean in character, but rather on the acting side of things.

[WillHay]

Nice to see a couple of embittered Doctor Who fans shouting about their grievances. Continually. :rolleyes:

"My tip would have been to get someone like Richard E Grant who has bags of charchter and can act."

Wow, that's a great tip. Except, he's already had a crack at playing the Doctor and was awful - and I don't mean in character, but rather on the acting side of things.

When?

The new bloke looks OK. I don't know why people are complaining. If the scripts are as poor as season 1, then even Tom Baker couldn't save it.

[Mutual Friend]

When?

The BBCi cartoon effort 'Scream of the Shalka'. There were plans for further stories but the new series rather scuppered this.


The new bloke looks OK. I don't know why people are complaining. If the scripts are as poor as season 1, then even Tom Baker couldn't save it.

*sigh* The new series has been a fantastic success, critically, in audience appreciation figures and ratings. People, in short, are loving it. There really is little argument outside of that. Yes, fine, YOU don't like it. I accept that totally, but do not offer your opinions as fact. I know, I know - everything you say is of course your opinion and does not need to be stated. But you HAVE said that the success of the series is due to the failings of today's culture rather than any inherent worth. Which is just ridiculous, quite obviously.

[WillHay]

The BBCi cartoon effort 'Scream of the Shalka'. There were plans for further stories but the new series rather scuppered this.



*sigh* The new series has been a fantastic success, critically, in audience appreciation figures and ratings. People, in short, are loving it. There really is little argument outside of that. Yes, fine, YOU don't like it. I accept that totally, but do not offer your opinions as fact. I know, I know - everything you say is of course your opinion and does not need to be stated. But you HAVE said that the success of the series is due to the failings of today's culture rather than any inherent worth. Which is just ridiculous, quite obviously.

Really? I remember the Guardian & the Times and a few other press reviews being extremely poor. The Guardian in particular slated Rose.

I actually liked some of it - about 4 or 5 episodes. The rest - written by RTD - were dreadful. Why? Poorly plotted, poorly written, filled with exposition and terrible plot devices and deus ex machina.

I have no said no such about today's culture, and I'm certainly in a minority who thought that RTD's scripts were particularly bad and amateurish.

[Mutual Friend]

Really? I remember the Guardian & the Times and a few other press reviews being extremely poor. The Guardian in particular slated Rose.

Okay, what I mean is that overall critics were very good towards the series and had a sustained level of praise throughout it's run. There are always going to be exceptions, such as with yourself.


I have no said no such about today's culture

Hmm, having gone back, yes, you have made no overt reference. My memory tricking me. However, you have made several comments that following your - very pompous and self-important - logic does suggest: "But you HAVE said that the success of the series is due to the failings of today's culture rather than any inherent worth."

You have said to another person's enjoyment of the series: "I still find this "switch my brain off" justification for TV & Film these days to be a rather baffling. Are we just willing to accept _anything_ and then justify it on the grounds that it's mindless entertainment?"

And also: "Fine. You enjoyed a bunch of action scenes. I'm very happy for you. Did you not notice that your intelligence was being roundly insulted by RTD's continued use of Deus Ex Machina & poor plot devices? Or maybe you like being written down to."

I think it is pretty clear to see, as many people DID enjoy the series, that you're essentially slagging off a great many peoples intelligence!


The rest - written by RTD - were dreadful. Why? Poorly plotted, poorly written, filled with exposition and terrible plot devices and deus ex machina.

Like a great many stories of Old Who then? :rolleyes:

[WillHay]

Okay, what I mean is that overall critics were very good towards the series and had a sustained level of praise throughout it's run. There are always going to be exceptions, such as with yourself.



Hmm, having gone back, yes, you have made no overt reference. My memory tricking me. However, you have made several comments that following your - very pompous and self-important - logic does suggest: "But you HAVE said that the success of the series is due to the failings of today's culture rather than any inherent worth."

You have said to another person's enjoyment of the series: "I still find this "switch my brain off" justification for TV & Film these days to be a rather baffling. Are we just willing to accept _anything_ and then justify it on the grounds that it's mindless entertainment?"

And also: "Fine. You enjoyed a bunch of action scenes. I'm very happy for you. Did you not notice that your intelligence was being roundly insulted by RTD's continued use of Deus Ex Machina & poor plot devices? Or maybe you like being written down to."

I think it is pretty clear to see, as many people DID enjoy the series, that you're essentially slagging off a great many peoples intelligence!



Like a great many stories of Old Who then? :rolleyes:

Yawn. Making more assumptions, mostly wrong. Crap stories are crap stories, and RTD demonstrated that he is not right for Dr Who - whereas the other writers all did (Even though I didn't like the Father's Day one.) RTD ruined what could have been an excellent series with constant bad plots, soap opera, and heavy handed attempts at injecting meaning. If anyone thinks Boom Town is good, they're a terminal retard.

[Mutual Friend]

Yawn. Making more assumptions, mostly wrong.

Really? How fascinating. I'd adore for you to point these out to me, as you seem to just go ahead and confirm my assumptions in the rest of your post.


If anyone thinks Boom Town is good, they're a terminal retard.

I love 'Boom Town', I think of it as good. I am not a 'retard'. It really is rather pointless in continuing this discussion as you obviously see degrading it to this level as valid.

[WillHay]

Really? How fascinating. I'd adore for you to point these out to me, as you seem to just go ahead and confirm my assumptions in the rest of your post.



I love 'Boom Town', I think of it as good. I am not a 'retard'. It really is rather pointless in continuing this discussion as you obviously see degrading it to this level as valid.

I can't be bothered, as you're a retard.

[Grant]

Lets not fall out lads its only a difference of opinion! :D I'm going for that box set I reckon...

Grant

[WillHay]

I was rather hoping he'd get the hint that I'm not interested in going over it all again - especially as the series finished some months ago!

I still haven't got round to watching Revelation of the Daleks yet, although the DVD is knocking about somewhere. From what I remember it was one of better stories in the C.Baker era. I didn't bother with the new series - not worth it for the few episodes I enjoyed.

[drterror666]

Well that WillHay vs Mutual Friend argument made interesting reading! ;)

I'm sure we can start the wholesale slagging of the series when it starts agin next year!

As far as I'm concerned, anything with a Slitheen in it was dire! Plus, I have to agree with WillHay about the deus ex machina. This was particularly bad in that final two-parter. But, we're not treading any new ground here, so I'll zip it up!

[Beautifulwound]

I actually rather enjoyed the new series, farting aliens and all. You may now commence beating me about the head :eek:

[drterror666]

I actually rather enjoyed the new series, farting aliens and all. You may now commence beating me about the head :eek:

Thwack, thwack, thwack!!! And, may that teach you a lesson! :D

WillHay, your turn! :D

[Beautifulwound]

Please, no more, I repent! It's crap, all of it! :eek:

[Paul D K]

The ratings levelled out at around 6.5 milion for the last few episodes (the ones that many fans said were so good), and that's with NO opposition from any other channel. Sylvester McCoy was getting 3 - 4 million opposite Coronation Street and was considered a failure?

If you equate the shows success with quality then logic suggests that ROSE was the best episode with 10 million viewers. It clearly wasn't, and at the other end of the spectrum we must assume that the latest series of STAR TREK ENTERPRISE was a load of rubbish because of low ratings and it's ultimate cancellation. Wrong again, as season 4 of ST: ENT proved to be the best and most fulfulling year of TREK for some time. Viewers hae become more cynical and no longer seem prepared to consider watching sci-fi when it's presented as serious drama. When it comes to developing character and making statements, there's nothing at all in the new series that I haven't already seen in any given episode of CASUALTY or THE BILL, so why don't people gush about those equally valid "drama" series'?

Looking at the continuing decline of children's television in general, it's clear to see why something like the new DR WHO is popular with them. Show those same kids some old Pertwee stories and they laugh them off the screen (I've seen it happen!) - As far as I can tell, whatever they liked about new WHO, it wasn't the deep character development or socially conscious storylines, otherwise they would appreciate all DR WHO for the same reasons. In my opinion, it was the smart-arse humour, right-on politics and flash special effects that appealed to the mainstream, as well as RTD's presentation of WHO as a joke that further perpetuates the myth that all science fiction should be juvenile and aware of it's own "silliness" to be accepted by the majority.
So my stance remains unchanged: DR WHO is dead to me. As long as it remains "popular" the BBC will keep RTD in charge, and as soon as that status starts to slip, it'll be cancelled anyway.

[drterror666]

In my opinion, it was the smart-arse humour, right-on politics and flash special effects that appealed to the mainstream[...]
I agree with this and think it's right on the nail! I expect by the end of the series it was only kids, curious adults and desperate Whovians who were left watching!!!


[...]as well as RTD's presentation of WHO as a joke that further perpetuates the myth that all science fiction should be juvenile and aware of it's own "silliness" to be accepted by the majority.

I guess this must be a 21st Century British thing, although it really does make a mockery of Doctor Who. I'm enjoying Stargate: Atlantis on Channel 5 and the animated Captain Scarlet much more than I 'enjoyed' Who! We need more serious sci-fi!

[Paul D K]

I agree with this and think it's right on the nail! I expect by the end of the series it was only kids, curious adults and desperate Whovians who were left watching!!!



I guess this must be a 21st Century British thing, although it really does make a mockery of Doctor Who. I'm enjoying Stargate: Atlantis on Channel 5 and the animated Captain Scarlet much more than I 'enjoyed' Who! We need more serious sci-fi!

I actually intended to reference the new CAPTAIN SCARLET series in my post but forgot! I too think it's a great series, with interesting & exciting stories coupled with amazing animation. Of course, as it was tucked away first in a Saturday morning kid's show then Tuesday afternoon CITV, the ratings weren't exactly stellar. I suppose that automatically means the show must be rubbish...

[Mutual Friend]

I was rather hoping he'd get the hint that I'm not interested in going over it all again - especially as the series finished some months ago

And yet you DID go over it all again... :rolleyes:


If you equate the shows success with quality then logic suggests that ROSE was the best episode with 10 million viewers.

Firstly, thank you for presenting a well argued, er, argument, unlike the pained ramblings of WillHay.

What I'm really saying is that if you put together the ratings, audience appreciation figures AND the general critical appraisal then you have quite a persuasive case that overall the series IS good quality. Though Eastnders is getting good ratings it is getting slated by critics and the general 'feel' among people is that it has dipped significantly in quality. That kind of ill feeling just isn't there with Doctor Who.


Looking at the continuing decline of children's television in general, it's clear to see why something like the new DR WHO is popular with them. Show those same kids some old Pertwee stories and they laugh them off the screen (I've seen it happen!)

I'd argue that this 'decline' is merely the fact that tastes in television have changed and is not that it is in fact of lower quality. Quite like the old argument that old telly is much better than modern telly, which, I think, is just drivel - it's simply different. Aside from this idea, I don't personally watch kids TV these days so I am not a great authority over the subject. ;)

But it's interesting that Doctor Who fans who dislike the new series seem to have such a rose-tinted view of Old-Who. A great portion of the old series was, blatantly, bad... and I find it a bit hypocritical that while these failures can be over-looked or accepted the fact they do not like the new series needs to be constantly shouted about. And often these are the people, very much in the minority within 'fandom', who get recognised by the newspapers. :) Oh, and this isn't a direct shot at yourself, by the way, but at the obviously more vocal fans.


In my opinion, it was the smart-arse humour, right-on politics and flash special effects that appealed to the mainstream

...and so what? To my mind, it doesn't matter why people enjoy something as long as they do. This kind of non-issue seems only to prey upon the minds of people who constantly think about what makes something 'quality'. If it entertains me then it is good. I'll leave it for the people who wish to analyse the series to tell me why, in fact, I am wrong. :cool:


As long as it remains "popular" the BBC will keep RTD in charge, and as soon as that status starts to slip, it'll be cancelled anyway.

I think that's a very cynical view about the functions of the BBC. To commission the series to begin with was a massive gamble - and then to go on to commission a further two series (including Christmas specials) after only one series shows a great deal of good will on their parts.


Just my two pence!

[christats]

I agree about Rose Tinted glasses,even with the best Dr Who actors some of the episodes were bland.
Television is no worse than it used to be.Its just that it seemed fresher 20 or 30 years ago.Still a fairly new medium then.
Then we had Tiswas. Now the kids have Ministry Of Mayhem with... Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee, who is apparently Vincent Wong from Talons Of Weng Chang etc.

[drterror666]

[...]it's interesting that Doctor Who fans who dislike the new series seem to have such a rose-tinted view of Old-Who.

I agree with you. Some of the Hartnell/Troughton stories were so full of padding you could open a Jiffy bag business! The Pertwee/Baker era could have some really embarrassing lines and effects that left the viewer gobsmacked for the completely wrong reasons (eg the Nestene creature in Spearhead From Space or Nessie in Terror Of The Zygons). I'd be the first to admit that it wasn't always what it claimed to be.

But, has this new series had anything comparable to Genesis Of The Daleks or The Talons Of Weng-Chiang? I would have expected at least one classic episode, but they were OK at best. Even Dalek, as good as it was, didn't reach the heights that I believe this series is capable of.


...and so what? To my mind, it doesn't matter why people enjoy something as long as they do.

So, a question to you. Do you believe it is acceptable in this day and age to fob off the viewer with deus ex machina as long as they enjoy it? The TARDIS seems capable of altering time/space permanently, so why couldn't it be used to do so? Most of the Time Lords must have owned a TARDIS with this power, so why didn't they use it to save their world when it was in dire peril? Were they all martyrs to their beliefs? This is the problem with Doctor Who, it just leaves me with more questions that I need answered. I know the continuity of Doctor Who has always been loose, but we're living in the 21st Century now and people are used to the Star Trek franchise, Babylon 5, Stargate, etc.

[Paul D K]

I certainly refute the "rose-tinted" aspect to enjoying old DR WHO - I have every single episode in existence on either VHS or DVD so my views are based on very fresh memories. I'd sooner watch any of my old series that the new stuff. Also, it's a weak argument to say "so you think classic WHO was without flaws?". Of course not... only a fool would suggest that 26 years of a television series were perfect. I personally can't stand the Graham Williams/Douglas Adams period, with CITY OF DEATH being one of my least favourite adventures.

But I can look back at virtually all "classic" WHO stories and see something utterly absent from the 2005 series: Imagination. Many people (even supposed fans) openly deride THE WEB PLANET for it's "shoddy" costumes and effects, yet the imagination within that story transcends all of that to make the adventure truly special and it is in fact one of my favourites. Now we have to see DR WHO with a grubby "reality" to make it acceptable - Well, that wasn't what attracted me to the series all those years ago. DR WHO no longer feels unique - It's become just another trendy tv show that's starting to believe it's own hype and I've given up on it.

But so what? On every single forum I mention my dislike of the series, the hordes emerge to challenge my perceptions of it. Why do you care? Why is so important that I fall into line and love that rubbish? I don't, can't and never will like DR WHO in it's current style and that's the end of that, basically. If you love it then that's fine with me (although I am bewildered by the adulation heaped on the series from so many), but I'm certainly won't change my mind.

[drterror666]

I'd sooner watch any of my old series that the new stuff.

I was thinking about this the other day, Paul, and I agree with you. I found I had no real desire to ever watch the new series of Doctor Who ever again, whereas I can watch a lot of the old series many times. Saying that, there aren't many Davison/C Baker/McCoy episodes that I have a fondness for.


On every single forum I mention my dislike of the series, the hordes emerge to challenge my perceptions of it. Why do you care? Why is so important that I fall into line and love that rubbish?

I'm with you here too, Paul! I've read all sorts of comments about Doctor Who and the majority of them have been gushing in their praise! Has TV come to this? Whatever happened to intelligent sci-fi? What is it about this new series that people like? I'm sorry, but I'd rather stick with Captain Scarlet and Stargate!

[MarcMorris]

I found I had no real desire to ever watch the new series of Doctor Who ever again,

You're showing your ages guys..

[WillHay]

I agree about Rose Tinted glasses,even with the best Dr Who actors some of the episodes were bland.
Television is no worse than it used to be.Its just that it seemed fresher 20 or 30 years ago.Still a fairly new medium then.
Then we had Tiswas. Now the kids have Ministry Of Mayhem with... Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee,Mr Lee, who is apparently Vincent Wong from Talons Of Weng Chang etc.

I don't know anyone who looks at it through Rose (Ahem) tinted glasses - there's a quite a lot of the old stuff I've had trouble sitting through, but mainly from the Pertwee/Hartnell Era. The one with the spacemen from Pertwee era is just plain boring.

However, it has to be remembered that the show was broadcast in 30 minute chunks, and something like "Keys of Marinus" would have worked very well in that format, even it's a bit hard to swallow in one go.

Television may have improved technology wise, but storytelling is still storytelling. And the Nestene in Spearhead may have been a rubber monster, but it was a lot more imaginitive than the "blob" in Rose (Not forgetting the story of Spearhead didn't rely on comic plot devices to move it along, although that isn't one of my favourites.)

[drterror666]

The one with the spacemen from Pertwee era is just plain boring.

Wasn't that Ambassadors Of Death?

[Mojo]

Wasn't that Ambassadors Of Death?

Certainly was. I liked this one - but, there again, I loved all of Pertwee's first series. :)

[drterror666]

What did you folks think of Bessie and, urk, the Whomobile?

[Mojo]

I thought Bessie was fun ( and practical! ) whereas the Whomobile was..er..embarrassing!

[christats]

I see another two of the older series are coming soon.Web Planet a William Hartnell story in September.
Also,and the one I am more bothered about City Of Death in November.
Being a Tom Baker fan I probably will get this but don't really remember it.Is it one of the better ones.?

[WillHay]

I see another two of the older series are coming soon.Web Planet a William Hartnell story in September.
Also,and the one I am more bothered about City Of Death in November.
Being a Tom Baker fan I probably will get this but don't really remember it.Is it one of the better ones.?

I've never seen Web Planet, but I've heard it's not that great.

City of Death is quite good. Funny, from what I remember. Isn't it written by Douglas Adams?

[christats]

Yes,I looked it up on the Doctor who episode guide.I don't remember seeing when it was on TV.I just know its set in Paris and has Laila Ward as his assistant.
I have now put it on my growing pre-order list. :eek:

[drterror666]

NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2005/08/24/23274.shtml) :eek:

[christats]

Are you overreacting a bit? At least it isn't Bonnie Langford or that male character who used to fancy Dr Who.Whatever his name was?

[Mojo]

And it's only for one episode.
So hopefully K9 will die of some kind of space distemper.

[drterror666]

They'll be bringing back Kameleon (I think that was how you spelt it) next! Well, at least it's just for one episode. And, as mentioned, maybe K9 will explode or something! It'll probably try to take a leak on an electrical socket or something. BOOM!

[Grant]

I hope so Doctor...Stupid dog!

Grant

[savm]

Never know they might finally explain how K9 ended up on Earth with Sarah Jane(beginning of The 5 Doctors) when he originally stayed in E Space with Romana (Warriors Gate)!

[drterror666]

I seem to remember that at the beginning of K9 & Company you hear the TARDIS disappearing. Sarah then finds K9 with a tag on it saying that it's a present from the Doctor.

I don't know, maybe K9 and Romana didn't bond or something, so the Doctor had to find somewhere to dump the wretched thing! I wonder if Sarah found a new use for K9's extendable nose laser? :D

[drterror666]

Has anyone seen that they're going for a Daleks vs Cyberman two parter in the new series? I'm sure WillHay will be brimming over with excitement! :D

[WillHay]

Has anyone seen that they're going for a Daleks vs Cyberman two parter in the new series? I'm sure WillHay will be brimming over with excitement! :D

Sounds about right for the fan fiction it has become. Groan.

I don't actually care to be honest. I've got more interesting things to be worrying about!

[christats]

I am missing it from Saturday tea time.Can't wait.Even if its got some bad scripts again its got to be better than that Davina McCall baby thing.
Do the BBC really think we want sh*t like that.?
I've preordered City of Death as well,hope the Beeb churn out some more Tom Baker ones soon.
I see strictly C*nts Dancing is back as well.B list celebs looking like goons again.I'm even looking forward to that. :eek:

[Mutual Friend]

Has anyone seen that they're going for a Daleks vs Cyberman two parter in the new series? I'm sure WillHay will be brimming over with excitement! :D

There will be no such story. Well, not in the next series anyway...

[drterror666]

I take it that was the Sun rumour mill working overtime again?

[drterror666]

I see strictly C*nts Dancing is back as well.B list celebs looking like goons again.I'm even looking forward to that. :eek:

As much as I hate to say it, I look forward to this as well! Also, I bet there are a fair few members on this forum who enjoy it too! Come on, spill it, we won't tell anyone! ;)

[Grant]

Dancing? Bahhh! The only dancing I'd like to see most 'celebs' do is at the end of a machine gun Peckinpah style! :D

Grant

[christats]

Well I watched it and got some enjoyment out of it,which I can't say of most things on Saturday teatime TV.
They were all pretty bad apart from Zoe Ball who was suprisingly good,and Colin Jackson who looked like a natural mincer,(in a dancing sense,honest).
To see Dennis Taylor dancing like an embarressing uncle at a party was amusing as well.
How do I get back to Dr Who from this?
Well maybe a Dalek could appear and exterminate 2 of the judges.The orange one and the camp Italian,they are the only annoying thing about it.
Maybe that will happen,after all Big Brother and Tranny and Susannah were on the last series of Dr Who. :eek:

[drterror666]

Oh, no, it's a spin-off (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4349120.stm)!!! :eek:

[drterror666]

Check out the new look Cyberman (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/4426416.stm)! It looks a bit hard! I wonder if they've redesigned the Cybermats as well?

[NPC]

Hmmm mixed feelings, nice head and chest but the arms and legs look overly chunky

[WilsonBros]

It looks a bit hard! I wonder if they've redesigned the Cybermats as well?

They look like they are wearing waders, for Christ's sake!

THE WILSON BROS

[NPC]

They look like they are wearing waders, for Christ's sake!
with flares at the bottom
The head also seems somewhat too reminiscent of Iron Man and the Rocketeer

[christats]

I saw the redesigned cyberman in the Metro paper.
IMO the charm of any old series is the campness.From the Avengers to Star Trek to Doctor Who.
Now we have a camp writer/director doing charmless blippy bloppy scifi.As opposed to educated upper crust writers doing campness.
A reversal.
By the way I mentioned on another thread,City of Death is a great watch.

Don't get me wrong the new Dr Who is a better watch than alot of tosh,but it hasn't got any competition.

[James Lee]

I quite like the new cybermen. Certainly better than the 80's version. Hope they don't screw up the voice - let's hope RTD doesn't hire Christopher Robbie!

[drterror666]

What Cyberman design does everyone prefer? The 60's lamphead? The 70's jughead? Or, the truly abominal 80's twatheads?

Me, I would have prefered the 70's style, as they were cool! I'll agree that the new ones look like they should be in a Marvel comic fighting Iron Man!

[Mojo]

Here's a more of a close - up :

http (www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/index.shtml)

As for fave Cyber designs, I'll wait and see how this lot shape up first!

[James Lee]

My favourite design is the one seen in The Moonbase and Tomb Of The Cybermen

[CJ34]

That looks like RoboCop with a Cyberman head!!

[drterror666]

Did anyone see the teaser on Children In Need? Looks like the Doctor is going to have a Colin Baker style regeneration complete with psychotic episodes then!

[christats]

I saw it.I was expecting a Scottish accent,unless the Doctor Who forum is ill informed.They said David Tennant was reverting to his native accent.Or it was filmed a while ago.
What happened with children in Need? I fell asleep after 10 pm.
Nobody seems to have mentioned it much.How much money it raised?
I know its for charity,but as a piece of entertainment it was dire.

[drterror666]

So, who's looking forward to The Christmas Invasion then? It's got killer Santas and Xmas Trees, the 'Aubergine' having its windows shattered (one for the Londoners there!) and the Doctor having a swordfight with the Sycorax leader in his pajamas! The Doctor, that is, not the Sycorax leader.

The trailer makes it all look lovely, especially the scaffolding around Big Ben! I'm looking forward to it, now that I'm used to the RTD way of things.

[Grant]

That bit where the Tardis crashes looks great!

Grant

[christats]

I was looking forward to it before the build up adverts,as Mr Tennant is an entertaining watch in everything I have seen him in.
Saw Secret Smile the other week and although it was far fetched and had an obvious twist ending he made for a good psycho.

As I have said before despite R.T Davies making the series a bit whizz bang and arsey or not have you seen the alternatives to Dr Who.
Bugger and all spring to mind.

[christats]

Arthur Dent battles the Phantom Menace.
Just watched it and those were the first thoughts in my head.
Didn't care for the story too much.
Thought David Tennant was promising
Saw the teasers at the end and got a warm feeling when I saw K9 and Elizabeth Sladen in the trailers for the new series.
Apart from the story being grand but feeble and it seems derivative,I still enjoyed it.
Compared with the rest of Christmas TV it was a masterpiece.

[WilsonBros]

We enjoyed it - it's a pity that the whole thing had to end in a swordfight, which is the very antithesis of the nature of The Doctor - unless he planned to use Venusian Hap-Ki-Do... (groan)

Otherwise a promising start to what seems to be a great new series - a pity that Mr Tennant couldn't have spoken in his native Paisley accent, as the Mockney accent he is saddled with sounds awfully laboured...

THE WILSON BROS

[WillHay]

We enjoyed it - it's a pity that the whole thing had to end in a swordfight, which is the very antithesis of the nature of The Doctor - unless he planned to use Venusian Hap-Ki-Do... (groan)

Otherwise a promising start to what seems to be a great new series - a pity that Mr Tennant couldn't have spoken in his native Paisley accent, as the Mockney accent he is saddled with sounds awfully laboured...

THE WILSON BROS

Disappointed. Poor plot, and too many terrible plot devices (Look, I can regrow my arm, look we have an alien blaster). Bits and pieces nicked from all over, cobbled together... Unimpressed with Tennant. Vaguely irritating, but that might have been the dreadful dialogue.

I thought it felt more like a parody of Dr Who - which is what RTD's other stories felt like.

[Grant]

Enjoyed it although I want to watch it again as the kids were talking all the way through. Particularly liked the souring of the relationship with the PM and the 'snow' and 'fireworks' were quite poignant. Some good lines from the doctor too. Looking forward to Season 2.

Grant

[christats]

Mr Tennant did nearly slip into his Scottish acent alot of the time.
The fact he appeared irritating as did Christopher Eccleston is down to the smug character writing of Russel T Davies.
I didn't like this story.
I said before that it was Grand and Feeble.In that it looked fancy and flash but there wasn't much of a story.
How can a 45 or an hour story develop like a 4 or six part story with cliffhangers a point that has been made before by others.
There was no tension.
I felt like I was watching it for the sake of watching it.

The cruel menacing all powerful aliens always seem to disappear with their tails between their legs at the end of most episodes.

The main excitement was in the teasers to come.
Lets hope that this was a bedding in episode for the new Doctor.
It probably seemed better than it was because of the rest of the Turgid stuff on TV.
I could swear it was Mrs Emery off little Britain presenting the Queen's speech.(Apologies to any royalists out there).

[richward]

I thought it was okay. Tennant was alright apart from the verbal diorreah. There was a lot of padding though. What I really disliked was the rip-off from 'The Silurians', OK I could stomach the Doctor showing his disgust at the Prime Minister bombing the ship but to then start a rumour that would potentially ruin her career, what was that all about? It felt a little hypocritical and judgemental. Harriet had already been used as a prop for anti-war sentiments but is then turned into the villian anyway. It felt as if the writers are trying to have their cake and eat it.

[MarcMorris]

Can't say I was impressed. Who on earth OK'd that script?

[mrb]

the LION KING joke was quite funny.

[christats]

True some of the jokeyness was good.It got a good write up in the Sun today.Maybe that was the audience it was appealing to.
I am not a avid Sun reader by the way.Just bought one to help walk the hangover off.
Rant 3.......
There was a massive army of the ugly buggers in the program for god's sake.They reduced 2 of the prime ministers aids to bones with plasma whips or whatever they were.
Then some mighty warrior in PJ's and dressing gown comes along and snaps one of their weapons in half and says bugger off or else...

They are using computer effects for the sake of it.
In the "good old days" the adversaries would turn up and because the effects etc were crap I didn't feel that the Doctor would be overwhelmed by whatever faced him.
I know they have to put a load of pazzaz in it to get kids with no attention span watching it and it is supposed to be sci fi which is by nature far fetched.
I thought it was okay,but okay isn't what I wanted.
The only way is up.

[drterror666]

WillHay, please stop watching Doctor Who! It's just not good for you. Why do you have to torment yourself like this? :D

I enjoyed it. I thought it was entertaining to watch, as long as I suspended belief and ignored RTD's plot holes. I think I'm beginning to get used to the re-invented Doctor Who now.

Oh, and David Tennent is great! I much prefer him to Christopher Eccleston. He just feels more like the Doctor, and looked like one by the end of the program, too!

Roll on series two...

[Mojo]

As a one - off special to introduce the new Doc, I thought it was pretty enjoyable.

I thought David Tennant was excellent and look forward to the new series. Enjoyed the brief clip of the Cybermen at the end, too... :)

[andy]

im not a fan of sci fi or Dr who( one of my best mates loves and and has tried to bore me with it for years now), however i have watched it last year and caught the new one last night i thought it was good light hearted entertianment my six year old nephew loved and and maybe thats the point kids watch this too, and it would seem they love it. Im not saying piss on the old dr who fans but this new series has a hard job to do and thankfully Russel T Davies wont be writing them all. Hey i got a DALEK for christmas I never would have even wanted one a few years ago.

[WillHay]

WillHay, please stop watching Doctor Who! It's just not good for you. Why do you have to torment yourself like this? :D

I enjoyed it. I thought it was entertaining to watch, as long as I suspended belief and ignored RTD's plot holes. I think I'm beginning to get used to the re-invented Doctor Who now.

Oh, and David Tennent is great! I much prefer him to Christopher Eccleston. He just feels more like the Doctor, and looked like one by the end of the program, too!

Roll on series two...

Sorry, no, I'm not having that. This is the typical lamebrain reaction - you know the story was rubbish, full of holes, and poorly done - yet are willing to justify it by reducing your own intelligence down to the script's level.

There's absolutely no excuse for the BBC to allow such poorly written stories to get through this far - and for you to justify it in this way is absolutely pathetic.

You may be willing to accept any old ???? that's thown at you, but just remember that the BBC won't stop hurling ???? if people keep letting it stick to them!

[WillHay]

im not a fan of sci fi or Dr who( one of my best mates loves and and has tried to bore me with it for years now), however i have watched it last year and caught the new one last night i thought it was good light hearted entertianment my six year old nephew loved and and maybe thats the point kids watch this too, and it would seem they love it. Im not saying piss on the old dr who fans but this new series has a hard job to do and thankfully Russel T Davies wont be writing them all. Hey i got a DARLEK for christmas I never would have even wanted one a few yers ago.

It would have been much nicer if you'd been given a "Dalek".

[andy]

yeah im a teacher with dyslexia so spelling is'nt my strong suit get a grip..DALEK you nerd, :o lol :mad: not that i have anything against nerds just, people who think bad spelling is something worth a comment. lol

[CJ34]

I can't say I was very impressed with the Dr Who Christmas Special either. Will someone shoot Rose and her mother and put them out of their misery! Honestly, I cringed every time Rose's mother was on screen. Really, it was all rather pathetic. Terrible script, lousy acting and poorly put together IMO. Now, I was quite enjoying some of the episodes in the last series until I started revisiting some of the older series and realised just how appalling this RTD 'resurrection' really is.

[James Lee]

Watched it. Very poor indeed. The Emmerdale special was better!

[drterror666]

There's absolutely no excuse for the BBC to allow such poorly written stories to get through this far - and for you to justify it in this way is absolutely pathetic.

WillHay, if I enjoy something, then that's my business. I have justified nothing, I just enjoyed the damn programme. Maybe it was because the rest of Xmas TV was total sh*te, I don't know. I understand that the plot was a bit of a mess, but there are a hell of a lot of people out there who are getting into this series. The BBC will keep RTD churning out this stuff if it keeps the viewing figures as big as they were on Xmas Day. So, you're just going to have to lump it or stop watching it!

Oh, and don't aim words like pathetic at me, it doesn't put me in a good mood, and it's not very constructive. I've seen you lose it with people before on this forum and I've tried to be 'diplomatic' in such situations, so just remember that it's only a programme, OK! :mad:

[christats]

I kind of enjoyed it even though I slagged it off.
I think David Tennant will prove to be an improvement over Christopher Eccleston who was too cold to do the quirky comedy.
The episodes I enjoyed from the last series were the more sinister ones such as the ghosts in Cardiff and the World War 2 gas masks,as many did.

The big Alien invasion defeated by 1 character,as the was the case with the Christmas episode just fall flat and are old hat.
There is nothing to beat George and Mildred this chrimbo,and as it is on in half an hour I am going to bugger off for the time being.(don't all cheer at once.)

[CJ34]

I definitely agree that David Tennant makes a better Dr than Chris Ecclestone. Ecclestone was far too self-obsessed, dismissive and uncaring to make a decent Dr IMO.

I just watched Carnival of Monsters and realised just how radically different RTD's Dr is to the older one. I prefer the older one.

But I'm not about to start calling people names over this - if you enjoyed it, great. I personally would have liked to have seen the Dr given more screen time in the Christmas episode. It just seemed a bit of a shambles to me.

[Grant]

I'd agree that I wanted to see Tennant more CJ. I don't think every bit is great certainly but there are bits in it which I really liked and on the whole its not bad at all imo. Its certainly not the Dr. Who that was but I don't think it should be really.

The kids love it as well, which is a great thing.

Grant