Witchfinder General / The Conqueror Worm (Michael Reeves, 1967) (Merged)

[Narshty]

Marc, now that Metrodome have lost the rights, do you think Anchor Bay could pick it up and do a new transfer from complete and uncut source elements?

[MarcMorris]

Prism now have the rights.

[Dwight Frye]

Matthew Hopkins must surely be the finest chap ever to originate from Manningtree, Essex! As a local, I'm proud to walk in the footsteps of such a fine, reasonable fellow.

[Philbw]

Originally posted by Marc Morris
Prism now have the rights.

Looks like Wichfinder General will be out at £4.99 - £5.99 very soon then!! Should have all the extras as well - just like Prism's re-releases of Shivers & Rabid...

[Jonny Rojo]

Originally posted by Narshty
Marc, now that Metrodome have lost the rights, do you think Anchor Bay could pick it up and do a new transfer from complete and uncut source elements?

What's wrong with the R2 release we've already got? Two versions of the film and a Michael Reeves doco. The picture seemed pretty good to me, much, much better than the previous Redemption video version where the inserted extra footage was horribly obvious. I didn't find much to complain about with this release. If anything it was the cover art. And at a budget price, you cant say fairer than that!

[Narshty]

Originally posted by redeyes
The picture seemed pretty good to me, much, much better than the previous Redemption video version where the inserted extra footage was horribly obvious.
Erm...and all the inserts were invisibly seamless on the DVD?

We aren't just talking a shift in colour tone or graininess here, but a huge leap from crystal-clear DVD to bleary sub-VHS quality (with soundtrack!)

It seems the only hope we have for this stuff to be reinstated using actual source elements instead an old video master is with MGM's eventual release in the USA.

[MarcMorris]

I was the person who restored WITCHFINDER here in the UK. When we did the DVD restoration we actually accessed the only two existing negatives in Britain, both of which were cut for the X rating back then.

We then accessed several prints, all of which were also cut. I wasn't happy at all about this situation, but there was nothing I could do. The release date had already been set, the DVD and street date advertised everywhere, and the releasing company were unwilling to put the release date back indefinitely in order to negotiate the use of materials from the USA.

The only way this title is likely to be fully restored is by going back to the original American negative. Even then though, the US version was altered and added an Edgar Allan Poe poem to the end of the film, hence the re-title to THE CONQUEROR WORM - AIP wanted WITCHFINDER to fit in with their Poe series of movies. To add insult to injury, recent US releases have also had the soundtrack removed and replaced with an awful electronic music score, due to licensing problems.

At least the UK DVD has the original music score - and a whole heap of extras!

[Jonny Rojo]

Cheers for the info Marc.

[Narshty]

Excellent stuff! I wasn't implying the Metrodome disc was a poor effort at all, but was just wondering whether we could see an improved release in the future.

[Count Yorga]

Has anyone bought the new Witchfinder general disc?
How does it look ? Saw it at Bensons world at 5.99
/Jörgen

[wanyon]

Well, i hope it looks better than the last DVD release. Not that it was bad. The quality was alright considering the material that had to be used but i thought the censored footage that had been reinstated looked so much softer, fuzzier and poor than the VHS version REDEMPTION put out some years back. The VHS version had slightly softer/poorer quality inserts also but not as bad as they looked on the DVD. Stuck out like a sore thumb! Now, i guess someone (Marc?) is gonna tell me that the DVD version was the same REDEMPTION version released to VHS and had been sublicensed by another company. So, maybe it is just the fact that DVD is stronger quality and makes these kinds of rough quality inserts look worse by enhancing the soft detail or something?!? I dunno. I just know that i kept hold of both my VHS AND DVD copies! Besides, the DVD did have 2 versions and extras so is definitely not to be grumbled at. Look forward to hearing feedback about the new release though...

[TheGriz]

...I have no answer to this question except to say that when this disc first came out I was so excited to finally see a more complete version that it didn't bother me (especially as there as disclaimer at the beginning of each print!).

As much as I want the best version available (technical wise) I don't have DOBLY DTHXS sound, nor do I have a 90" Dilithium PLASMA driven screen!! (although that would be cool!).

But my point is that sometimes the advent of DVD has made people less thankful for what we are given (with the exception of a certain company that is forbidden from being written about!!) sometimes just be thankful for what we are given especially when the distributor's make the effort to disclaimer the film before you watch it!!!

Rant over...TheGriz has spoken!

:cool:

[Dr Saxon]

While repeated watching might change my mind, I thought it was interesting to be able to see exactly what had been cut out.

[jacksmith1983]

I bought the £5.99 re-release rom HMV on Monday, the inserts aren't too bad and are probably about as good as could be expected.

Considering it contains two seperatue cuts of the film and a Michael Reeves documentary you would have to be pretty mad not to pick it up at such a low price.

[wanyon]

I am not gonna agrue or even disagree with what has been said (apart from being "less thankful"...%$*@#!!!). I just wonder sometimes about things like this. The VHS version from a few years back seemed to incorporate the inserts very well as the quality of the reinsated footage seemed only slightly removed quality-wise from the picture as a whole yet the inserts on in the DVD seem considerably lower quality as well as roughly edited in at times. I watched the old VHS version plenty of times and don't remember it being as i described here. So, my question simply is: has the company transfered the REDEMPTION version to DVD or have they worked on it themselves? I guess with Reeves' intended edit of the film they assembled themselves. But what of the 'International edit'?

[MarcMorris]

I restored BOTH versions. You probably think the quality is worse on the DVD inserts because the picture quality either side is much better being DVD let me explain:

The VHS was cobbled together using a poor quality non anamorphic TV master, whilst the inserts came from the out of print US laserdisc.

The laserdisc had the awful replacement Kendal Schmidt music score, so we had to overlay these sequences with audio for the UK version as best we could.

The DVD on the other had was mastered from the original negative. I had access to two negatives (the only ones in the UK) and a print - all were cut for the BBFC X certificate.

We used exactly the same footage for the inserts, but obviously it had to be re-formatted to 16:9 to match the rest of the feature. This may well be the reason it looks a little softer.

Believe me, I really wanted this to be the definitive release of WITCHFINDER (hence the effort I went to with the stills gallery), but as Metrodome (the rights owner at the time) had set a release date that was only a few weeks away from my restoration work, there was no we we could gain access to the American negatives in time, held by MGM.

[Mark Y]

I agree. I think it does look a bit worse on DVD, due to the better quality of the footage either side and the fact that the restored footage has been re-formatted (blown-up?).

It may seem like quibbling but I would have preferred to have had one version on the disc representing the original UK theatrical print (retaining the original censor certificate would have been a nice touch too, if possible) mastered from the best available elements, and then have the 'export cut' only include the added violence and nudity.

Must admit I've never been too sure about the extra nudity and whether Reeves would have included it in any 'Director's Cut'. I'm inclined to think not and wonder whether they should be included as alternate scenes rather than integrated into the film itself?

Maybe if the rights eventually lapse ABUK could grab them and Marc could give us his definitive version?

By the way, years ago there was a version of the film on cable that included the extra nudity (but not the violence I don't think) and that cut to the credits as the screaming woman was about to be hung in the prologue. I've never seen this version before or since and have no idea where it came from?

And on another Reeves-related matter many years ago ITV showed a version of The Sorcerers that had a cut version of the stabbing of Susan George and the car crash at the end. Surely this must have been cut by the BBFC but their website lists it as originally uncut, unless the cuts were made before submission.

[Mark Y]

Marc can correct me if I'm wrong but having looked at the Redemption tape again, it seems to me that there was more use made of the inferior footage in censored sequences rather than just the censored material itself, which may have made a difference, unless it just looks that way. Hard to tell.

Have to say that even after many years and repeated viewings Witchfinder General still packs quite a punch and has always been high on my list of favourite films (not just genre ones). The ending must be one of the bleakest in any horror movie ever made :eek:

[Mark Y]

I'm off on a bit of a Witchfinder General kick at the moment having just watched the highlights again. I have a couple of questions for Marc about the DVD (mine is the Metrodome one which I believe is identical to the Prism), namely:

Did the items in the image gallery all come from your collection?

Where did you come across the trailer?

Were there any attempts made to have a commentary done for the film? I know Nicky Henson still thinks very highly of it.

Also a couple of observations:

I found the trailer a bit weird, making it out to be some sort of historical adventure movie. I'm sure a lot of viewers would have been shocked by the film having seen that. And Wilfred Brambell gets an honorable mention although he only has a cameo! They must have been trying to bring in the Steptoe and Son fans...

Am I the only person to be annoyed by Kim Newman's repeated attempts to re-title the movie? It's always been known here as Witchfinder General, so why call it Matthew Hopkins Witchfinder General all the time? It really irritates me :mad:

I'm off to have a rest.

[MarcMorris]

I would have preferred to have had one version on the disc representing the original UK theatrical print (retaining the original censor certificate would have been a nice touch too, if possible) mastered from the best available elements, and then have the 'export cut' only include the added violence and nudity.

The Metrodome disc DID have both versions! I haven't seen the Prism re-release, but I would have thought it would be identical.

Regarding Mark Y's suggestion that less insert footage was used, this is indeed the case.

All the items featured in the gallery came from a number of sources, some were mine, some were frome friends. I believe that is the most complete gallery of WITCHFINDER materials ever gathered together in one place.

A commentary would have been great, but Metrodome didn't seem interested at that time.

[Mark Y]

both versions on the disc feature restored footage, so neither is the original UK (cut) version.

Shame about the commentary since the rest of the features on the disc are so good.

BTW someone is trying to sell a US Conqueror Worm poster on ebay UK for 600 quid :eek:

[daviddunne]

regardless at £5.99 for the dvd , including trailers and a good documentary on top of a superb film, this disc is amazing value. You know i often thought that since the advent of dvd we have become spoiled and now expect to have all kinds of stuff on a disc, when once we were more than happy to even own a Nth generation vhs copy that cost us 20 quid at a film fair. I bought this disc last week and have no complaints whatsoever - well doen Marc for helping to bring a superb film to wider access.

[wanyon]

OOPS!
Did i open a can o worms again?!
Sorry about that! LOL
In all honesty, i am very happy with the DVD. I think having 2 versions of the film (one, the International version with sexier inserts filmed for the European market and the other, a close aproximation of Michael Reeves' intended cut) is great and the quality is good for the age (the reasons you specified Marc for the lapse in quality between inserts and main footage seems fair). The documentary, trailer and gallery were all top notch too. So, no complaints really! It was just something i noticed when watching the DVD. I bought it, settled down to watch it and then was surprised at how the inserts were so noticably different quality. This made me recall how they seemed to fit in better in the old REDEMPTION tape. The combination of a newly remastered print combined with having to re-format the inserts for 16:9 would obviously create a larger divide in quality between the two. Thanks for clearing that up. I was a little mad at first that a DVD version could make the inserts stand out like a baboon's arse but it appears alot of thought and effort went into making the best of things. I WILL, however, keep ahold of my VHS too i think!!!

[Count Yorga]

And im very pleased.Seen most of Price´s movies, but i had never seen WG before.Great little film.And at 6£ its an bargain.
/Jörgen

[savm]

I got this at the weekend (Prism label) and I have to say I was very impressed with it! I`ve seen this film dozens of times on tv but never seen seen it looking so pin sharp and with colours so vibrant! The work thats gone into the remastered version stands out a mile when you see the clips in the Blood Beast doc as those seem very soft and quite fuzzy in comparision.

I have to agree with TheGriz, DVD has made us very greedy regarding films. Extras are nice but they are just that, extras, a bonus! We buy the films for the film itself, because it`s something we want and will enjoy. I personally would prefer a stunning looking film that has been remastered but has no extras as opposed to a crap quality film with dozens of extras.

OK yes the restored footage in Witchfinder General stood out but most of it was the "blink & you miss it" kind. Big deal! It didnt spoil my enjoyment for a second and in fact I`m just happy to have a complete version of this absolute classic :D

[El Topo]

In regards to the UK disc, what is the difference between the Director's Cut and Extended International Cut? Any detailed information would be appreciated, as we have a local version of this down here and there is absolutely NO difference betwen the two versions (running times are identical). Thanks!

[Vaughan]

The longer cut has more "gore" and violence. But before you get all excited, the quality of the extra material is HORRIBLE beyond words. Even to the extent that I prefer the shorter version.

Have you seen the R1 Zombie 3, with the intercut Japanese video footage? Well - this is WORSE. You'll be watching a perfectly good lookin film, when you'll be transported to the really bad footage for a few seconds, then it gets good again.

Actually, I think it's a disaster. We live in times where more is always considered better, which leads us to have to accept subpar nonsense like this release. Don't bother, watch the film in the "cut" version.

[El Topo]

Yeah, on our local disc it would seem that the only version we have is the uncut version, as it has the **** quality footage (quite badly) edited in. The UK edition seems dirt cheap so I might pick it up if it does include the cut version.

[Paul WJM]

A lot of the extra material is actually alternate shots (in addition to some more explicit violence), specifically clothed women are nude in the more extreme version. Because they're alternate shots, rather than additional footage, this explains the apparent similarity in running times.

Personally I think, despite the fact that the alternate footage is obviously from an inferior source, the current DVD isn't as bad as Black's suggested. In fact, I think it's an essential purchase. If you really don't like the inferior quality of the alternate shots then you can simply opt to watch the UK theatrical version. I'm quite happy with my disc anyway.

[Dr Saxon]

It is at least interesting to be able to see what was changed/cut. I did find the changes in quality distracting but that may well be because I was paying attention to them as new material.

[Paul WJM]

We've become a little fussy during recent years I reckon, expecting everything to be mastered from original negatives and speckless.

We should be glad that someone bothered to go out, track down the extra footage, and take the time re-inserting it into the movie. I'm sure the quality of the material is sub-standard because that's all that could be found. Would people rather them not have put the effort in at all?

[savm]

In my opinion this is a Vincent Price classic. Yes the 'new' footage in the international version is of poorer quality but lets be fair a lot of it is the "blink and you miss it" type of stuff.

I love this film, seen it dozens of times over the years and certainly I for one am grateful these alternate scenes were tracked down because (quality issues aside) I think they make a great old film even better.

I`d love to see more of these Hammer/Hammer type films from the 70`s released with both versions (where possible) on the disc. As Paul said, we have become fussy because lets be honest unless it`s stored properly a few secs of film is never going to look as glossy as the latest releases no matter how much remastering is done to it ;)

[SicCoyote]

I like the music video with the big woman.

[El Topo]

lol - they really needn't have bothered with including that clip, it's ****ing terrible!

Anyone here own the British Film Makers book on Michael Reeves? I'm very interested in picking it up, anyone know if it's any good or not? After watching the (fantastic) documentary on him I'm interested in learning more about the man.

[El Topo]

Originally posted by Paul WJM
A lot of the extra material is actually alternate shots (in addition to some more explicit violence), specifically clothed women are nude in the more extreme version. Because they're alternate shots, rather than additional footage, this explains the apparent similarity in running times.



I just had a quick look over both versions for this and there's no difference, even down to the running time (82:52). Very bloody disappointing indeed :mad: Since I love the film though, I might as well grab the R2 for completists sake.

[SicCoyote]

Originally posted by Paul WJM
specifically clothed women are nude in the more extreme version.

If only life had a more extreme setting.

[drterror666]

Sic, you dirty ol' man! :D

[Dr Saxon]

Originally posted by SicCoyote
If only life had a more extreme setting.

It does; it's called two bottles of red wine.

[SicCoyote]

Originally posted by drterror666
Sic, you dirty ol' man! :D

I'm 23, I'm not old. And I've just have a bath.


Originally posted by drterror666
Well I can't just call you man

[drterror666]

:D

[Mark Y]

Originally posted by SicCoyote
I like the music video with the big woman.

She used to be a regular on the James Whale show years ago :)

[SicCoyote]

Cookie was it?

I watched a few episodes of that.

[Mark Y]

Cookie, that's her! Also saw her in some Electric Blue-type thing on cable...

[Mike Sutton]

Some genre critics call this Vincent Price's best performance. I can understand what they mean - it may be his best piece of acting - but I think it's so untypical as to be something of an aberration in his career. I'd go for "Theatre of Blood" over this.

Having said that, "Witchfinder General" is a marvellous and powerful piece of filmmaking. Michael Reeves has a knack - both here and in "The Sorcerors" - for getting into the back of your mind and rooting about until he finds what really gets to you.

[El Topo]

Yes, I'm very much looking forward to seeing the Sorcerers. Might grab the R2 disc, even though I've heard the transfer is really crap.

[SicCoyote]

Hey I've just read your profile you're not old enough to watch witchfinder, tut tut tut.

[Dr Saxon]

Sweet Jesus! I started college a few months after you were born. 'Somebody get me a God damn wheelchair'

[MarcMorris]

You'll all be pleased to hear that MGM USA are currently working on a brand new restoration of WITCHFINDER GENERAL.

[El Topo]

Absolutely marvelous news. Thanks for that

[paramanjara]

"The Mark of Satan is upon them..."

Wonderfull cinematography and direction. Vincent Price's best horror appearance. No hamming, just a solid chilling performance.

"The year is 1645. England is in the grip of bloody civil war. On the one side stands the Royalist Party of King Charles, on the other Cromwell's Parliamentary Party, the Roundheads. The structure of law and order has collapsed. Local magistrates indulge their individual whims. Justice and injustice are dispensed in more or less equal quantities and without opposition. An atmosphere in which the unscrupulous revel and the likes of Matthew Hopkins take full advantage of the situation. In a time when the superstitions of country folk are still a powerful factor, Hopkins preys upon them. Torturing and killing in a supposed drive to eliminate witchcraft from the country..."

- Part of narrated introduction from the UK version of WITCHFINDER GENERAL.

During the Civil War period in 17th century England, a soldier returns home to find his fiance's father executed by Matthew Hopkins, a zealous witchfinder. The soldier vows revenge and sets of in pursuit of the murderous Witchfinder General.

1968's WITCHFINDER GENERAL was Director Michael Reeves' third and last film. It's American backers, keen to promote it as a Price/Poe picture, renamed it for its American release as The Conqueror Worm after one of Poe's short poems. The American version also featured a narration of this poem at the start of the film, but apart from that addition, the poem itself has nothing at all to do with it. WITCHFINDER GENERAL, its original and by far the better title is how it has always been known here in the United Kingdom. I shall therefore refer to it by this title for the duration of this review.

Michael Reeves based his film on the novel WITCHFINDER GENERAL by Ronald Basset, itself based on the life of Matthew Hopkins, one of the most vicious Englishmen who ever lived. While Cavaliers and Roundheads were locked in bloody combat, Hopkins - self appointed Witchfinder General - waged a savage war against the helpless under the pretext they were servants of Satan. Mercilessly he satisfied his appetite for lust and cruelty by spreading a trail of terror through the Eastern Counties. And with every innocent death his purse grew heavier.

This film was a Tigon Production with Arnold Miller, Philip Waddilove and Louis M Heyward producing and Tony Tenser as Executive Producer.

It starred; horror veteran Vincent Price (House Of Wax, The Abominable Dr Phibes, Theatre Of Blood, The Monster Club, Edward Scissorhands, Whales In August, et cetera), Ian Ogily (From Beyond the Grave, Michael Reeves' The She-Beast & The Sorcerors. Simon Templar in the television series The Return of the Saint), Rupert Davies (Dracula Has Risen From The Grave & The Oblong Box), Hilary Bryer, Robert Russell, Nicky Henson (Psychomania), Wilfred Brambell (Albert Steptoe in BBC's Steptoe & Son, a small role in the Original television version of Nigel Kneale's The Quatermass Experiment), and Patrick Wymark appeared as Oliver Cromwell.

Michael Reeves had originally wanted Donald Pleasance to play the part of Matthew Hopkins, the Witchfinder General, but American backers insisted on Price playing the part. Reeves wasn't too pleased with this but needed the financial help so conceeded to their wish. After a take in which Price was customarily hamming it up, Reeves told Price to please stop rolling his eyes, and act naturally. Price a little taken aback replied, "I have made hundreds of films. How many have you made?" To which Reeves countered, "Two good ones!" Price began laughing and from then on the two got on famously. Price was later to comment that Reeves was right and that as a result WITCHFINDER GENERAL was probably the best horror film he ever made.

On its original release many people commented on how unashamedly gruesome it was. People expecting to see a tongue-in-cheek Price vehicle would have been very surprised indeed. Reeves replied to the criticism with the question, "What was more wrong, to laugh at horror or be horrified by it?" Horror should be just that, horrific, not something to be made fun of. People should be shocked by horror, not amused by it. The scenes of torture and violence in WITCHFINDER GENERAL are therefore not played for laughs.

The exquisite music composed for the film by Paul Ferris has since been used by many other people for use on advertising campaigns and such-like, leading people to believe that it was actually stock 'library' music. The composer actually makes a cameo appearance as the boyfriend of one of the 'witches' burnt at the stake by Matthew Hopkins. For the role he adopted a pseudonym; Morris Jar, an in-joke adapting the name of composer Maurice Jarre.

The location work is brilliant and I have even visited the castle seen in the last part of the film a couple of times. I have stood in the chamber where the bloody climax of the film is reached. This is the closest I will ever come to meeting Vincent Price, one of my idols. The right location, unfortunately 30 years too late. Price is one of my favourite actors and this one of my favourite productions. I was fortunate enough to catch this film at a screening during Darkness Over Britain, a horror weekend held here in the UK at an small independent cinema (The Corner House, Manchester). Video is all well and good but nothing compares to seeing these pictures in the way they were originally intended to be viewed, on the silver screen.

The back cover blurb from Redemption's UK video release reads, "Possibly one of British cinema's best ever horror films. Vincent Price performs superbly as the sadistic witchfinder Matthew Hopkins and the ever present sense of menace is never far from the screen. This film's great success spawned numerous imitators including Mark of the Devil and Franco's The Bloody Judge."

The Aurum Film Encyclopedia has this to say about the production, "The colours of death and decay imbue the movie with a muted but eerie intensity, relentlesly building up to an explosion of unconscionable violence"

A classic of British cinema with high production values and heaps of cult appeal. A loose dramatisation of the life of one of Britain's most 'evil' men, is almost as gruesome as the real-life escapades of the infamous self-appointed WITCHFINDER GENERAL himself.

[Vaughan]

This is a movie that looks like a Hammer, acts like a Hammer, but isn't a Hammer. Closer inspection shows it's a variant on Hammer's theme, and is all the better for it (not to take anything away from the great studio).

The DVD release for this can be had quite cheaply, and is put out by "Metrodome". It is marked as a "Special Edition" and among other minor extras, includes "Blood Beast: The films of Michael Reeves Documentary", which runs for about an hour. The same documentary can be found on "The Sorcerers" disc.

The movie is on the DVD in two versions - a "Director's Cut" and a "Complete Export Cut". The longer cut has a little bit more gore (nothing substantial though) and is marred by very poor quality video inserts. Pity.

Still, the DVD itself is a good one, it includes the aforementioned documentary along with a trailer, a music video, and production notes. For the price, it's easily worth the investment!

[Rich]

The castle used in Witchfinder General is Orford castle in Suffolk,I think parts of the movie were also shot in Lavenham,which is a very picturesque village,also in Suffolk.

[Mark Y]

Witchfinder General has been mentioned several times before on the forum. I'm a great fan of the film and it's right up there at the top of my genre favourites.

More by accident than design I've ended up with a number of different versions of the film:

original UK version from TV

the uncut European version on tape and DVD (discussed here before)

a weird version from cable that includes extra scenes from the European version but cuts to the credits just before the woman gets hung in the opening scene ( :confused: )

And now, as part of an ebay lot I've just obtained a 90s US Orion tape of the film which has the original score replaced by an awful synthesized one (I'd read about this before but didn't know just how bad it was). This also uses the uncut European print, retitled as Conqueror Worm.

What I've never seen though is the original US version as it was first released in the States. Anyone know if this has ever been made available on home video?

[MarcMorris]

The US video and laserdisc release is best avoided at all costs, due to the replacement music. The original US theatrical version has never been issued on video - anywhere.

MGM are working on it right now, for a 2005 release.

[Mark Y]

Well I agree about the US video. The music sounds awful and it's a testament to the film that it still manages to survive with most of its power intact. The one thing the tape does have going for it is that there is no drop-down in quality during the scenes that were originally cut over here, but that's about it..

I only got this because it was with a number of other items including a Mexican Witchfinder lobby with that great decomposing skull art and the old Vincent Price Unmasked book.

Presumably the forthcoming US DVD will have any cut scenes restored to it. And will it be the clothed or unclothed version, or both?

[MarcMorris]

I would expect it to be the same as the tape you have - but with the originl score intact. Who knoiws, they might also include the original British version too - fingers crossed!

Do you have the UK disc? I worked on the mastering of it - and suppplied all the images in the extensive gallery.

[Mark Y]

Yep Marc, I've got the UK disc (and the Redemption tape) - an excellent piece of work. It's just a shame the restored footage couldn't have been more evenly matched with the original, but that seems to be a common problem with DVD restorations :(

[MarcMorris]

Yes, I'd have liked that too - but the release date was too close for comfort so we had no option but to go ahead and issue the disc with lesser quality inserts of the uncut scenes.

[dbeefy]

.. I always wondered about those extra scenes too , the old 'Continental version' as the saying used to go !

(I've got the Redemption tape , and had the Metrodome(?) DVD as a surprise Xmas present , which was well cool. )

[mbellishment]

Originally posted by Black
This is a movie that looks like a Hammer, acts like a Hammer, but isn't a Hammer. Closer inspection shows it's a variant on Hammer's theme, and is all the better for it (not to take anything away from the great studio).
This is one of my favs!!!!
I can see the Hammer connection, but I feel that the only connection is the look and performance aspect of the film... IMO it equally looks like an Amicus film, acts like an Amicus film, but isn't an Amicus film... reminds me of films like Blood on Satans Claw, And Now the Screaming Starts, Masque of the Red Death etc... but IMO pushes the era a little further...
The film comes across as a one off, from that era... granted it is directed by a 'one off' director, but seems to ask a little more from the viewer, i.e. the mad slaughterous ending (nothing much uplifting there), probably one of the most downbeat endings to a film ever IMO... even the great Mr. Price doesnt jump back up and deliver a cheesy one-liner, that would have been almost expected in that day of cinema... no... he just dies, whilst the tortured Hilary Dwyer/Heath lies screaming (and who can blame her, going off the mad torture she has just endured by the EVIL M. Hopkins and is low-life assistant). Or the rape scene gestured in the fields by once again the evil little t**t that is John Stearne and the unfortunate Sarah Lowes. Or the unusually painfull looking stabbings (they dont just fall over and die, but also gasp & contort in agony) that John Stearne deals out to the good Kings army. The drawn out burning-at-the-stakes etc...
Definately a 'one off' of its genre... it definately stood out as a one off from when I used to watch Hammer & Amicus films as a little kid with my grandmother on a Friday night:D
I think in todays comparisons... its like comparing 'Freddy Vs jason' & 'Irreversible' (well maybe not to that extreme, but hopefully you'll get my drift). Even to this day, I feel embarrased if someone walks in when I'm watching the ending because it is, even by todays standards a well planned and horrific ending, trying to use the old cliches of good overcoming evil, but to no salvation!
Anyway forgive my ramble... Im drunk :D ... gannin to bed!

[mushie]

Our very own Marc Morris is thanked in the credits on the dvd too! I presume it's the same person, Marc?

[MarcMorris]

I don't know how many times I've already said this here - I supplied all the extras and assisted with the restoration.

[mbellishment]

Oh this must be where you go if you want a question answered by a moderator :D
Any chance of avatars Marc? :p

[MarcMorris]

I'll look into it.

[mushie]

Originally posted by Marc Morris
I don't know how many times I've already said this here - I supplied all the extras and assisted with the restoration.

OK OK MARC! LOL some of our newer members just might not have known the wealth of your talents and know how!!!!!!

[mbellishment]

Originally posted by Marc Morris
I'll look into it.
Thanks... you are indeed a kind and sterling young gent.

[THE CULT]

Im a fan of this movie too - always liked it and always thought it was a hammer movie LOL - well come on most of the cult brit flicks were... Nice looking DVD by the way and a nice proce to top it off

[Grant]

Marc's the king of extras, dint ya know?

Grant :D

[aga2k1]

Argh saw this in the HMV sale for £3.99 but didn't pick it up as I remembered Marc had done the extras but then saw it was distributed through Prism (:eek: ) so I thought they'd re-released it and it'd be a typical crappy release.
I'll have to go and pick it up now (and tip-ex out that Prism logo ;))

[Count Yorga]

I really liked "The Sorcerers" too.I wasnt expecting to find it so entertaining.I will probably get myself in trouble, but i found it just as good as WF. I wish that prism would release "Blood beast" too so we could enjoy all of Reeves film on dvd.
Pity he passed on so young.Im sure he would have done some excellent films.

[MarcMorris]

The Reeves films were originally released by Metrodome, through a deal with Redemption/Salvation, where I was working at the time.

Metrodome later sub-licensed those titles to Prism.

[aga2k1]

Well I picked up the "Prism" DVD and everything seems to be in order, it even starts up with a Metrodome title screen. The box doesn't bother to mention the fact there are 2 cuts on the disc for some reason though, which did worry me for a bit on the way home though (not that you should trust anyhting Prism put on their boxes - incompetant fools)

[Count Yorga]

Do you there is a chance for "Blood beast" to be released Marc?
/J

[se7en45]

Great dialogue:

Hopkins' assistant, after narrowly escaping a mob: "They're after your blood Hopkins!"

Hopkins, calmly sitting on his horse: "Looks like they've had some of yours."

[Thornton Reed]

I think i'll pick up the Prism release, a real bargain at only £2.99 from HMV(Other retail outlets are available).

[Rich]

Is there no way a new uncut version can be released (possibly a new print struck from an original uncut camera negative) without all those horrible fuzzy VHS inserts?

[dbeefy]

Nice idea. Would there be an original uncut camera negative in existence though ?

[MarcMorris]

Only in the US, with MGM - the UK neg was cut as per the BBFC's requirements. As I found out when doing the restoration.

[James Lee]

is there any chance Anchor Bay could acquire this uncut negative for the Tigon set. The Metrodome was weak - unavoidable given the circumstances - and I would love to see a new version

[Jonny Rojo]

Bringing this over from something discussed in the Norman J Warren thread from the 'Feedback' forums...

James Lee posted...

"I heard a rumour that MGM were going to release the Conqueror Worm - US version of WG - in the States but that was a while back"

To which Marc posted...

"I'm not saying anything"

Make of that what you will... though I read recently that 'The Witchfinder General' played in the US on one of the High Def. channels in an uncut version and didn't feature any of the loss in quality that the current uncut version has.

[MarcMorris]

To which I'll repeat... I'm not saying anything.. ;)

[Jonny Rojo]

Originally posted by Marc Morris
To which I'll repeat... I'm not saying anything.. ;)

By saying nothing you're telling me everything I want to know. ;)

[Rich]

Yeah,but does it also feature the stupid U.S. Conqueror Worm title,awful synthesiser soundtrack,and Poe narration by Vincent Price.Lets hope its Michael Reeves directors cut with original British title and soundtrack.Save the Poe narration and nude scenes as extras.

[Rissos]

Originally posted by Rich
Save the Poe narration and nude scenes as extras.

So you get all the nudity in one burst? Wahey!:D Reminds me of the Easter egg on the first R1 of Showgirls Input correctly it looped two of Elizabeth Berkley's nude scenes.

[Count Yorga]

I have never understood that title
Conqouring worm ? what does it mean ? I know its a Poe story
Can any one explain please?

/Jörgen

[Mark Y]

The Conqueror Worm is a Poe poem, that also turns up in his story Ligeia. The conqueror worm is Death:

http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/poe/works/poetry/con_worm.html

When AIP distributed Witchfinder in the States, they were looking for a way to sell it, so retitled it to try and tie it in with the other Poe pictures they did. Simple as that really.

[James Lee]

I think the poem has a line about man's cruelty. It's been years since I read it.

[James Lee]

Damn good poem - scant comparison to film

[Mark Y]

I guess AIP didn't think there was much of a market for a film about 17th century witch hunting, even though it went on to spawn simliar films like Blood On Satan's Claw, Mark of the Devil, Cry of the Banshee, Bloody Judge etc. The US Witchfinder poster had that memorable picture of a worm-eaten skull, just to try and link it in a bit more with the new title.

[Swarez]

I love that poster. I wish the R2 DVD had used that on it's cover rather than that shoddy looking Photoshop job.

[se7en45]

The Beeb are really getting into the festive spirit tonight:

WITCHFINDER GENERAL - BBC-2 - 12:20am - 1:45am

TWINS OF EVIL - BBC-1 - 1:00am - 2:30am

Both in widescreen, 16:9 and most likey UNCUT...

If I remember correctly, they also screened DR TERROR'S HOUSE OF HORRORS in an uncut version.

I've got the Carlton DVD of TWINS OF EVIL but I've been informed that it's a censored version. :mad:

[Rissos]

They had Rosemary's Baby on last night. I didn't watch it but I did see them introduce it as "part of our Creepy Christmas line up." So I'd expect a lot more horror this week.

[Mark Y]

I've got the Carlton DVD of TWINS OF EVIL but I've been informed that it's a censored version. :mad:

Censored in what way? I'd be surprised if the BBC version is any more complete than Carlton's. The only cuts made to Twins were by the BBFC at the time of the original release: some mild sexual goings on between the Count and the girl before Cushing confronts him in the shack in the first reel and some shots of the girl on the altar when the hooded man dips his fingers in blood, lifts the sheet and moves his fingers over her body. Also some shots of blood trickling on her neck. I'm not aware of a more complete version.

N.B. the old Lorrimer Hammer book has a topless still of Mary Collinson being undressed in the cell, but since the BBFC didn't cut it, it must have been removed by Hammer themselves, it it was actually shot and not a posed production still.

[Vaughan]

I was pretty sure the Twins of Evil in the CArlton box was complete. Looks good too.

[Grant]

I think the rumours of some of the Carlton releases being cut are just that...

Grant :)

[Vaughan]

I think we can all agree they're terrific, and have silly (cheap) pricing :)

[Mark Y]

Bit silly of the BBC scheduling them against each other, especially so late. Which one will people be taping?

[Wonderboy]

I'm watching Withfinder General, since I've never seen it before. Not too shabby a flick, dunno if I'd buy it though.

The print, however, is not top notch, I swear it switched to a VHS source for a few scenes.

[Vaughan]

Maybe they were playing the full length version - the inserts on that are "VHS" quality.

[Paul WJM]

The DVD of Witchfinder (currently available) is the same - varying quality in order to create the complete version. I've heard that some good quality footage of the more explicit scenes was found not too long back and that a new and better master will be compiled using this, although I'm pretty happy with the disc that I already own.

I taped Twins of Evil anyway - worth watching for those sexy Collinson sisters at the very least!

[se7en45]

Oh yeah, the Beeb are going Hammer crazy. More films are hitting the small screen in the coming days.

Enjoy! :D

[Grant]

So how come they showed AB's print? I thought the beeb only showed actual 'film' prints?

Grant :)

[MarcMorris]

You think the BBFC project actual films for all their movie broadcasts? No, they use the same master tapes as any DVD releasing company would use.

As I've stated here numerous times, there is no fully uncut pristine master anywhere in the UK of WITCHFINDER.The inserts were sourced from an old US laserdisc.

[Grant]

The inserts were sourced from an old US laserdisc

I thought the old laserdiscs were fairly good quality, those inserts are on par with vhs! Still, here's hoping a US print is decently sourced at some point...

Grant :)

[MarcMorris]

That particular laserdisc was pretty ropey, as you can see. And converted from NTSC to PAL too.

[Pecker]

Converted from NTSC to PAL, eh? :eek:

Where's the smilie for 'my mouth is sealed'? ;)

Seriously, this raises a pretty obvious question - where was the LD sourced from, and is that print not available?

Oh, and the one we're all waiting for, what will be on the ABUK Tigon box, Marc?

Steve W

[MarcMorris]

The laserdisc was originally issued in the USA back in the late 1980s. But it featured the new electronic score so I had to go into an edit suite and replace the music as best I could. MGM own the elements for this title, and we haven't been given access to their materials.

This version will most likely be included in the Tigon set. Still, you get the original UK cinema version plus the extended version, which includes extra violence and alternate tavern nudity.

[Pecker]

Nudity is good, but 'tavern nudity', well that just sounds special! :cool:

As long as someone uses the terms 'flagon' and 'wench', what more could you want?

Steve W

[Rich]

I personally prefer watching Twins Of Evil,as I think Witchfinder General is slightly overrated.

[se7en45]

Here's some rather sad and disturbing news about the MGM Midnite Movies which were due to release a restored version of Michael Reeves' classic Witchfinder General:

George Reis, moderator of the Yahoo Midnite Movies Forum just posted the following -

I have been in contact with Philip Waddilove, producer of WITCHFINDER GENERAL (aka CONQUEROR WORM). After MGM spent years and lots of dough on a pristine, restored new DVD transfer of the film, Waddilove was lead to believe that it was on Sony's October '06 schedule. Apparently, this is not the case and Sony has little interest. This is how Waddilove replied to me:

"I'm at a loss for words. Why MGM would go to the trouble of a total restoration without releasing the DVD of "Witchfinder General" is beyond comprehension. However, exactly the same fate has befallen "The Buttercup Chain", my other movie (with Columbia) now also hidden away in the vaults at Sony. On several occasions I was informed by James Owsley (Director of Restorations at MGM) that Witchfinder was definitely on their October 2006 release schedule. But, apparently, the principal at Sony doesn't greenlight DVDs of anything older than ten years!!"

Yes my friends, it's obvious that Sony's ownership of the MGM catalog is the worst thing that could have ever happened, and as editor of DVD Drive-In who spearheaded a petition to continue the Midnite Movies, I am totally fed up. The decision to put titles in the Midnite Movies series that don't fit the bill, and not continuing the fine work that the old regime had started confirms this.

If you would like to voice your opionion, outrage or make suggestions, I urge everyone who reads this who wants the Midnite Movies series to continue as it should, write to Chris Franchino, who manages MGM catalog marketing, at Chris_Franchino@spe.sony.com

This is pathetic... :(

[Vaughan]

I guess on the plus side - they've made a pristine digital transfer, so the film can now be preserved in that format. Maybe they'll hold off for a hi-def release. Who knows?

I wonder how many restorations our friend Mr. Morris has done that have not found the silver on a DVD?

[MarcMorris]

It's been broadcast in Hi-Def on the Monsters HD channel in the US.

[Paul WJM]

I was watching this just the other night actually. It is sad news but I think holding off for a HD release (if that's going to happen) would be a preferable option personally; I'm not going to be doubling up on DVDs now with the prospect of buying them again on HD just around the corner.

[charles]

Is the version Anchor Bay released in Tigon boxset the same as that released by Metronome/Salvation?
It was a pretty good release, nice to have 2 versions and all the extras; marred unfortunately by the terrible quality of the previously deleted footage (glad it was included though).

Is The Sorcerers still available?

[jacksmith1983]

The version in the AB UK Tigon set is the same as the Metrodome release.

Both are a quality presentation of the film in my opinion although i'm sure some would like to see the rather grainy torture footage (mastered from a much inferior source) fully restored. Hence the elation/dissapointment over this bit of news.

It's a shame Sony have no time for the Midnite Movies range as MGM had such a terrific back catalogue of horror movies, many of which they never got round to.

In answer to your other query the Metrodome version of The Sorcerers was re-ssued by budget label Prism and can be bought for a fiver or less if you scout around.

[Grant]

apparently, the principal at Sony doesn't greenlight DVDs of anything older than ten years!!

I'd normally swear but instead I'll just say words fail me. :(

Grant

[christats]

I'm not in a rush to buy another Witchfinder disc,as I have the first DVD and the one in the set.
To know that a better transfer exists though.....
I have to agree the attitude of Sony in regards of their older backcatalogue is annoying.
Not a big seller.Thats all they are interested in.

[charles]

Thanks,
I'll probably pick up that dvd of the Sorcerers some time or other ... looked like fun, though dated :-)

[jacksmith1983]

It's a pretty good film but as with all of Reeves' work it suffers from an inflated reputation for obvious reasons.

[Vaughan]

I wouldn't be without Sorcerers. However, I'd be telling less than the truth if I didn't admit it had aged pretty badly. Witchfinder is a period piece, so ages better. Sorcerers though - it's ripe for a remake I reckon. See, I love the story, and just "enjoy" the film. It's got that crazy 60's vibe to it, and the machine used is a bad disco.

Not to put anyone off - it IS fun. The DVD is average at best. A picture of this was in Denis Gifford's book from the 70's, so I just had to have it.

[MarcMorris]

There was in fact talk of a THE SORCERERS remake a few years ago - I'm not sure what became of it though.

[James Lee]

"A picture of this was in Denis Gifford's book from the 70's, so I just had to have it."

Same here. That picture used to terrify me!

[Rich]

This is really disappointing.I'd love to own a pristine uncut print of Witchfinder General on DVD,but only if the original British title and soundtrack were restored to the US version.I don't think the torture scenes were ever subject to censorship on the US "The Conqueror Worm" version.

[James Lee]

But according to DVD-Drive In, MGM are about to release some more Midnite Movies - non horror though. So there maybe hope

[CJ34]

Sony don't greenlight anything older than ten years? Funny that, but MGM?Sony recentlky released The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane, which is from the mid 70's. I'm not sure if the full picture is being revelaed here, especially with the release of films (after Sony's buy-out) like Konga, From A Whisper to a Scream (late 80's) and a handful of others, all of which are more than ten years old.

From what I recall, though, at the time of Sony buying MGM, they stated that they were more interested in acquiring their back catalogue for the purpose of remaking a few of them. I also seem to recall promises being made by Sony that MGM would continue to run as it always had done.

I'm wondering if any of this has to do with certain sections of the Sony empire suffering financially due to bad business decisions...PSP, anyone?

The most insane thing about all this is the fact that MGM was facing financial ruin and DVD came along just in time. The massive sales of back catalogue titles on DVD (including the Midnite Movies imprint) turned the company around and made it one of the most valuable companies in the market. Sony's failure to realise this won't ruin them, but they'll miss out on some big sales and the chance to turn a fast buck.

[JWK]

The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane, as well as the other MGM titles that have been released in R1 since the Sony buyout, were green-lighted and prepared for release by the old management at MGM. The gestation period for a DVD release is at least a year or so, and Sony was obligated by existing agreements with retailers to deliver these titles to the market.

The full effects of the Sony/MGM deal are only now beginning to be seen via the forthcoming 2006 release slate.

[CJ34]

Thanks for clearing that up, JWK, I hadn't realised this. So there's the very distinct possibility that Sony will just allow the MGM library to rot away. By this I mean that when a film is prepared and restored for DVD, not only do we get a nice new transfer of some great old titles, but they are also digitally preserved for generations to come. By not continuing this tradition I fear that many of the older MGM titles may be lost forever, without hope of ever being seen again. That could be over dramatising the situation, but in the long term these libraries held by the major studios need to be given a digital overhaul and thus preserve the important history of cinema.

I still think Sony are insane not to capitalise on the success of these older cult titles that were so profitable for MGM. Indeed, when we live an age where companies like Blue Underground can actually run at a profit by just releasing cult titles, you know there's money to be made off them - good money, too.

[Vaughan]

To me it's obvious Sony will want to preserve these titles, so digital restoration/storage is something I feel safe in assuming will occur. The films are an asset, after all. Releasing them on DVD though? Sony are at the forefront of hi-def, so there's a good chance they're holding off for that. Maybe. Maybe I'm dreaming. Maybe DVD for such small titles, just isn't feasible anymore. I was reading a posting on another forum only yesterday where a guy proudly admits to pirating 30 titles a month from online rental companies. With that level of piracy going on in our beloved genre, is it any wonder companies think twice about pushing out marginal titles?

Finegrs crossed for hi-def!

[CJ34]

I was reading a posting on another forum only yesterday where a guy proudly admits to pirating 30 titles a month from online rental companies.

We all know piracy occurs - and that's bad enough in and of itself - but when people are brazen about it like that, it really pisses me off. I'm a member of an oline rental service myself, but I use it as a way of seeing movies I'm unsure I'll like or not and as a means of letting the missus watch all her chick flicks without costing too much (I'm not being mean, but she's not a movie collector like me, so she's more than happy just to watch a film once and send it back).

When people don't pay for things it means the rest of us have to. Somebody, somewhere has to make up the shortfall - and it's usually the honest folk like us, unfortunately. Saying that, I think DVD's are more than reasonably priced these days - even new releases. I certainly don't have a problem paying for what I want - or rather, it is a problem in that I probably spend too much!!

Okay, this might be controversial thinking - but, you know, I'd happily pay a little extra for DVDs if I knew that the extra money would go towards the restoration and release of the more marginal titles.

[Vaughan]

I'm sure everyone is sighing as they read this topic come up again - but it DOES have an influence. By paying for DVD's, you are in effect paying for their restoration. If the balance of cost V. Profit goes too far the other way, then the likes of Sony are incentivized to do the work and push out the releases. Given the higher margins such companies demand, they stop releasing before say, a BU would - but ultimately it would work the same way. No-one can continue if people aren't buying.

Anyway, without bogging the thread down in the same old banter, I don't like Sony's decision at all - but I can see where they might be coming from. As long as the thing is digitally preserved, there is still hope.

[MarcMorris]

I'm sure WITCHFINGER GENERAL will appear on either Sony's Blu Ray HD format, or as a download from their newly announced download service (http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6324555.html?nid=2705). After all, MGM did create a brand new HD transfer and it has been screened on the Monsters HD channel.

[Vaughan]

Marc, do you know if this was a fully uncut version?

[CJ34]

Like you say, Black, piracy is a topic that comes up time and again. However, I do think it's pertinent on a thread like this, because piracy does have a great effect on the market and how it performs. Don May of Synapse has said himself that if a film has already been heavily bootlegged, it will affect his decision whether or not to proceed with a certain title or not. Bill Lustig has said similar - in fact, some of the titles they released, which had already been heavily distributed by bootleg companies (Circus of Fear, God Told Me To etc), performed quite badly with low profit returns. So much so that he has decided not to take that risk again.

[CJ34]

WITCHFINGER GENERAL
Does he point it a lot saying 'Witch! Witch!'...?

:D

Seriously though, a legitimate HD download service sounds like a wise business decision.

[Vaughan]

We'll have to see what they do with them. Several of the download sits that are up right now have restrictions on them. These include not being able to burn the films to media (DVD) and not being able to watch the movie on anything other than a computer. I wouldn't be interested in that.

[MarcMorris]

Marc, do you know if this was a fully uncut version?

Yes - it's fully uncut, restored from the original uncut negatives as supplied to AIP by Tigon just after completion of the film.

I have worked on restoring WITCHFINDER GENERAL twice now. Firstly, back in 1995 when I was employed by Redemption we issued it on VHS. We were supplied with the usual BBFC cut cinema version, to which I added the missing sequences from OOP the US laserdisc. Sounds easy? It wasn't. The US laserdisc features a re-scored version of the film, which uses a terrible Kendall Schmidt electronic score.

Then in 2002 I was asked by Metrodome to assist on their DVD release, which was being re-issued as part of a distribution deal they had recently signed with Redemption.

I arrived at the lab and I had requested that we had all UK materials that were available. Two negs, and a print. Upon checking each one, all turned out to be the same dreaded cut BBFC X cinema version. I knew there was an archive print held by the BFI, so I checked with them - and yes, their version was also cut. Back in those days, it would appear that most companies made the BBFC cuts to the original negatives.

I was therfore forced to do the only thing possible, and that was to use the same laserdisc footage to fill in the cuts to the newly created Metrodome master. I didn't want to do this, but there was a fixed release date which could not be changed, and to access the MGM vault materials would have taken many months, if at all. I wasn't at all happy with this situation, but what you have here is the restoration I supervised, using the only available materials I had access to. For the DVD release I suggested we included both the BBFC X and restored versions, and I also supplied all the posters and stills for the gallery.

Luckily however, because Tigon Films had a deal with AIP in the US, an uncut dupe neg was made and sent out to the US. That (like THE WICKER MAN) is the saving grace in this whole annoying saga.

[Vaughan]

Thanks for the insight, Marc. Your job must really suck sometimes, wanting to do something badly, but experiencing, first hand, the mutilations forced on films in storage. We do appreciate the efforts though ;)

[Grant]

Fascinating stuff Marc. As Black says though, theres no way I want to watch a movie on anything but my own cinema set-up.

Grant

[MarcMorris]

You will soon be able to stream online movies to your home cinema set up.

[CJ34]

--You will soon be able to stream online movies to your home cinema set up.--

As much as I realise that technology will inevitably move in this direction, I find myself with an old school attitude in that nothing quite beats actually owning the film - complete with packaging etc.

[MarcMorris]

The times they are a changing...

[R-T-C]

HD Download, thats going to be what 30Gb a time? Better hope you all have fast connections, big HDD and a good broadband contract (most have a monthly limit of so many Gb). And I'm guessing that burning to HD-DVD will be impossible from home computers for a while to come.

As for streaming movies direct to a TV, I'm pretty sure that will go the same way as DivX (the original one), people don't like to have a company controlling what they see, even worse, the national restrictions will be even stronger than with region coded DVD, and it might become impossible to see some films unless you are in the right country.

[Vaughan]

Good point on censorship. As long as I can stream my movies from other regions I'll be happy - if I can only stream BBFC approved movies... that'll be a problem.

[Paul WJM]

I'd take 'owning' a film over streaming it when I want to watch any day - I'd be fairly surprised if permanent media ever became a thing of the past but we don't know what these horrible little kids are going to be like in 20 years; maybe they'll consider buying films old-fashioned or something. But currently, people do like to collect things.

[se7en45]

The times they are a changing...

Aha, we have a Bob Dylan fan in our moderator! :D

Hey, talking of Dylan, I thought his soundtrack for Sam Peckinpah's Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid just seemed perfect for that film.

I wonder why he never continued?

Back to Michael Reeves, I think Midnite Movies should have done their usual double-bill release with Witchfinder General on one side and Cry of the Banshee on the second.

[CJ34]

--Cry of the Banshee on the second--

Except that this title is already available on the Midnite Movies imprint, so if there was to be a double-bill offering for Witchfinder General I'd like it paired with something that hasn't already been released.

As for watching streamed movies - I don't like that idea at all. You'd have to rely on your internet/phone connection to not disconnect before the film ended! Nah, too many variables and too much scope for things to go awry for my liking.

[Grant]

I prefer to have something tangible. That censorship question is a thorny one too.

Grant

[Rich]

--Cry of the Banshee on the second--

Except that this title is already available on the Midnite Movies imprint, so if there was to be a double-bill offering for Witchfinder General I'd like it paired with something that hasn't already been released.

As for watching streamed movies - I don't like that idea at all. You'd have to rely on your internet/phone connection to not disconnect before the film ended! Nah, too many variables and too much scope for things to go awry for my liking.

I thought MGM were going to release Blood On Satan's Claw in the US,that would make a good double-bill with Witchfinder General. :)

[Pecker]

We'll have to see what they do with them. Several of the download sits that are up right now have restrictions on them. These include not being able to burn the films to media (DVD) and not being able to watch the movie on anything other than a computer. I wouldn't be interested in that.

Most new Plasma/LCD screens & projectors have DVI and/or HDMI inputs which will accept a Hi-Def picture from your computer. As long as you can put your laptop next to to your projector or TV set you'll be fine. I doubt that anyone would make any money from offering Hi-Def versions of films for sale online if you couldn't watch them on a big screen.

I don't like the idea of not being able to 'own' a film. When I buy it, I want to keep it for good, not have some digital rights management thing stopping me watching it after (say) a year. This is my biggest concern.

On the plus side - it's good to see the film companies reacting positively to online piracy - not lagging 4 years behind like the music industry.

Steve W

[NPC]

I think downloads will eventually be priced by definition and duration the download may be kept for and whether it may be burned to disc. This also raises questions about the durability of blank media you may use and your right to download the film again at a later date if lost and what may happen if the site you download from goes bankrupt. There is also the question of what your rights would be if purchasing from an overseas site. I also foresee micro payments where you will be asked to pay small amounts more for extras (this is already happening in the gaming world)

[weegieboi]

Marc!
Thanks for the info on WG & also the restoration process....very interesting...it must be equally rewarding & frustrating to do such work can I ask if you do the print search etc yourself for your Nucleus label?
:)

[MarcMorris]

No, because we always ensure that a decent master is available before commiting.

[SicCoyote]

I always thought that was the sensible way round.

[LoungeLizard]

Something has always mystified me about Witchfinder General which I hope someone here can clear up (I posted it on the IMDB but no one replied).....

Even in the restored version there is still a scene which appears to be missing. At the film's conclusion, Ogilvy escapes from his bonds and boots Robert Russell (Stearne) in the face when he's lying down. There seems to be a missing sequence here because the cut seems very obvious. Boot comes down - cut to Hilary Dwyer flinching - Russell's eye gushes blood. Maybe I'm being too 'detailed' but it looks as if that scene is missing a frame.

Does anyone know about this?

[Rich]

I'm sure if there was any footage missing from that particular scene,it would have be well known and talked about just as much as the missing torture/burning/axe chopping scenes were in the original censored cinema print.I could be wrong though.

[se7en45]

There seems to be a missing sequence here because the cut seems very obvious. Boot comes down - cut to Hilary Dwyer flinching - Russell's eye gushes blood.

Erm, over to you Marc.

To me, it looks like a clever edit. The less you "see" the more you "imagine". This was what made David Lean such a clever editor with the stuff that he produced. He allowed the imagination to have more scope rather than spell out the ideas with too much visual information.

[LoungeLizard]

You are probably both right about this. I may well be seeing things (or not seeing them in this case). :) It's just that that particular scene has a bit of a 'jump-cut' feel about it.

Classic film nonetheless - and I wonder if it would still have been as effective if Donald Pleasance had played Hopkins as Reeves originally intended. :confused:

[se7en45]

I wonder if it would still have been as effective if Donald Pleasance had played Hopkins as Reeves originally intended.

Pleasance could always bring out deviant perversity if the role required it. I think Reeves and Price had a tough time of it. A personality clash or something.

Who would be your fantasy Matthew Hopkins?

Mine would include Charles Laughton, Christopher Lee, Trevor Howard, Orson Welles or Herbert Lom.

[SicCoyote]

Pleasance could always bring out deviant perversity if the role required it.

He looked the sort, it's funny Cronenberg looked totally different to how I would have imagined him, Lucio Fulci exactly like I imagined (and pretty much the same way I imagined Cronenberg to look)

[LoungeLizard]

Who would be your fantasy Matthew Hopkins?

Apparently Price wanted to play the role in a less serious manner (a la Prince Prospero) but Reeves insisted he do it with less camp and more realism. Something Price strongly disagreed with. I thought Reeves was correct though. Price's performance in this ranks right up with "Theatre Of Blood" as amongst his best.

Anton Diffring would also have made a good Hopkins (though he did a similar thing in Mark Of The Devil 2). I also think Roger Delgado (the original Master from Dr Who) would have been an offbeat choice.

[James Lee]

I find Price very effective as Hopkins if a bit out of place. Plescence would have been interesting but wasn't he rather small?

There's a story that an exasperated Price said to Reeves: "I've been in fifty movies." To which Reeves replied "I've done two. Two good ones"

[weegieboi]

I think Price was perfect in the role....it showed what a fantastic actor he really was (without the ham/camp we normally would have seen him in)....I'm reading a book @ the moment (which my partner edited) under the banner British Filmakers - Michael Reeves by Benjamin Halligan....it's a well written, fascinating read & goes into detail the relationship that Price/Reeves had (among of course, insights into the rest of his short life & films) you guys should seek it out it's a worthy read
:)

[Rich]

I know Patrick Wymark appeared as Oliver Cromwell in Witchfinder General,but did he also do the narration at the very beginning of the film? it sure sounds like him.

[Adam Clark]

A picture of this was in Denis Gifford's book from the 70's, so I just had to have it.

That book was my horror education! :D

Growing up in the pre-video 70s I was too young to get in to see horror films at the cinema, so books like that were a staple diet. Still got the book too!

Adam

[se7en45]

Did anyone get this great book?

It comes highly recommended:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/se7en45/tens.jpg

There's some nice pictures from The Witchfinder General production.

[Grant]

Yes its a cracking book Se7en!

Grant

[LoungeLizard]

This is more a question for Marc really but ever since I bought the Redemption video of Witchfinder General (many moons back) I've always wondered about this. It was written on the back of the box......

"This version includes footage not seen in the UK, and was at the time of writing the Full Director's Cut - only the UK State Censors, the BBFC, can alter that!"

I'm probably reading it wrong but did this mean that only the BBFC had the powers to 'alter' it (ie cut it) or that there was a longer version awaiting BBFC approval for release?

[MarcMorris]

That sleeve note was written when the film was yet to be viewed abnd classified by the BBFC. As it turned out, they didn't cut it.

[LoungeLizard]

My kind of reply. Quick and directly answered. :)

Thanks for finally clearing that up Marc. I'd wondered about that one for ages but never got round to asking (as per usual).

[SimonT]

I take it the old Witchfinder General special edition DVD is now out of print?

The review of the version available on Amazon says its the older cut version with no extras.

I heard that the previous uncut VHS release used inserts from a laserdisc, was this same print used for the DVD? The reason I ask is that people were complaining the inserts on the disc were "inferior quality", which made me wonder as to their source.

TIA.

[Vaughan]

Well, you can grab it in the Tigon Collection from Anchor Bay. If you don't own that already you really shouldn't be allowed to pretend you like horror films anyway.

I just traded the old disc (with inserts) to Blockbuster, I think I got a whole pound for it! :)

j/k

:D

[MarcMorris]

Get the Anchor Bay Tigon Collection (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0006TL98M/mondoerotico05) by all means, but you should also pre-order the upcoming USA DVD.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EMTUsNCHL._AA240_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000RO9PUU/mondoerotico)

[Vaughan]

Why's that Marc? Do you have any insight into the print they're going to use? Will it be superior - or have the inserts in better quality?

[MarcMorris]

When the film had been completed, a dupe negative was made and was sent to American International Pictures. The film was then submitted to the BBFC and cuts were requested. The cuts were made to the UK negative, and all UK release prints were made from this cut negative. The cut scenes were thrown away.

I've done two restorations for the UK now. The first was for the Redemption VHS (which I used a US laserdisc to fill in the cut scenes).

The second was for Metrodome's DVD. I had the UK negative and two UK release prints. Even the BFI archive version is the same cut release print version. I wanted to access the US negatives but I was told there wasn't time, and that the UK release date had been set in stone.

So begrudginly I was forced to use the US laserdisc to fill in the missing scenes, which is why we decided to include the BBFC X version and the restored version on the UK release. At least we did a nice new anamorphic transfer from the neg for this version.

So the ONLY fully uncut version is the US MGM vault negative. It has now been been fully restored to HD and it's this uncut version which will be coming to R1 in September - so buy it (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000RO9PUU/mondoerotico)!

[SimonT]

So the ONLY fully uncut version is the US MGM vault negative. It has now been been fully restored to HD and it's this uncut version which will be coming to R1 in September - so buy it (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000RO9PUU/mondoerotico)!

Well that answers those questions, thank you Mark :cool:.

Do you know if this version will also have the alternate European version with the extra topless shots? :)

[MarcMorris]

The topless shots I inserted into the UK restoration came from the US version.

[SimonT]

The topless shots I inserted into the UK restoration came from the US version.

Oh right, well I was reading on IMDB that the UK disc had 2 versions. A UK directors cut, with the violence restored, and an alternate "export" cut, which also contained extra nudity.

Is this version going to contain the extra nudity as well as the violence then and will it have the alternate, less risque, scenes from the UK version included as extras somewhere?

[Vaughan]

Thanks a bunch Marc - that's insane. I'll be buying this for the third time on DVD looks like.

[Mark Y]

Tricky business this, because I'd class a Directors Cut of Witchfinder as one that had all the violence intact, but without the nudity from the Export Version. Not sure what the MGM disc is including in the main feature?

[SicCoyote]

Yeah I would buy the new dvd to get a more pristine version of the uncut film but after watching the DVD by metrodome I feel it's not that great a film.

[Mark Y]

...but after watching the DVD by metrodome I feel it's not that great a film.

What!!! Have you taken leave of your senses? It has one of the greatest endings of any British film ever made. And the rest of the film isn't too bad either. ;)

[claire]

Yeah I would buy the new dvd to get a more pristine version of the uncut film but after watching the DVD by metrodome I feel it's not that great a film.

I'm with you, can't see the fuss. The Metrodome release was okay for £5 - the Cathedral video made me laugh. Not sure if a better print will encourage me to buy again. This has aged ... Mark of the Devil is better. Just my opinion. :)

[Tim Rogerson]

A decent uncut French print of this film (the UK release version without the alternate Continental topless tavern wench shots), titled Le Grand Inquisitor, is also available. This has an English track. It can be bought from Amazon.Fr although the price is a bit steep at 30 Euros. One website has posted various comparison frame shots vs the Anchor Bay release.

So, it's not only America that has a decent print of the uncut version.

[dr death]

What!!! Have you taken leave of your senses? It has one of the greatest endings of any British film ever made. And the rest of the film isn't too bad either. ;)


I agree with Mark Y here. I reguard Witchfinder General as being in the top ten of great British Horror Films. :)

[Diabolique]

I'm with you, can't see the fuss. The Metrodome release was okay for £5 - the Cathedral video made me laugh. Not sure if a better print will encourage me to buy again. This has aged ... Mark of the Devil is better. Just my opinion. :)

What about the Prism release which had BOTH versions on it and a few extras as well ?
That was pretty good imo.

[dr death]

Wasn't the prism one identical in content to the Metrodome one?

[Diabolique]

No idea as I only have the Prism DVD.

[christats]

I love almost anything with Vincent Price,this included.Mark of The Devil is ok but this is a classic.
If I didn't have the 2 version UK disc I would be more excited as that is good enough.
Probably still buy it but Corruption or several other films hard to get would get me excited.

[MarcMorris]

Wasn't the prism one identical in content to the Metrodome one?

yes, the prism was a budget-priced re-release. Identical.

[Diabolique]

One question then Marc

Is the MGM disc have the inserts to the point you do not noticed them ?

[MarcMorris]

There's no need for inserts since the transfer has been taken from the uncut neg.

[Rich]

Can't wait to get my hands on the uncut MGM version of Witchfinder General.I shall be viewing the movie with a new appreciation after recently visiting some of the picturesque locations in Suffolk where it was filmed. :)

[Dr Phibes]

Comparison of the Prism UK and French transfers (http://web12.dvd2web.de/witchfinder/witchfinder.htm) of Witchfinder.

Mein Gott, the UK transfer is terrible. The Metrodome edition isn't as bad as that, as I recall, but the French transfer is still far superior to it, too. I would be delighted if the MGM transfer is as good as this.

[Diabolique]

Much better PQ than before,this is how it should have been rather than the rushed job before.

[Dr Phibes]

From that DVD-Haven page:


The French DVD release is based on a MGM print of the complete Director's Cut.

[Mark Y]

The latest UK disc doing the rounds is from Slam Dunk, which I've seen in Virgin Megastores for 2.99. Does anyone have that? According to the BBFC it's rated 15, so I'm wondering if it's different to previously released versions that have been rated 18.

[Oscar Deutsch]

From the running time on the BBFC website, it looks like its the version without the inserts.

[CJ34]

I've got the DVD that's in the Tigon set, which has served me well - but I'll definitely be upgrading to the MGM disc (but will be keeping the ABUK disc).

[SimonT]

The latest UK disc doing the rounds is from Slam Dunk, which I've seen in Virgin Megastores for 2.99. Does anyone have that? According to the BBFC it's rated 15, so I'm wondering if it's different to previously released versions that have been rated 18.

According to the reviews on Amazon.co.uk its the previous cut version, which is something of a retrograde step.

[Tim Rogerson]

I think Marc M mentioned above that the cut version has just been released in the UK because the quality of the uncut inserts in the UK is so poor and that there doesn't appear to be an uncut master in the UK.

However, the forthcoming US MGM release will be a decent uncut master and a decent uncut master was used for the French release. The problem over uncut masters only seems to exist in the UK. Therefore, it seems a waste of money to buy the new cut UK DVD (especially as it only has one version of the film on it whereas previous releases have two). The cost of a multi-region DVD is now cheaper than an individual DVD (I bought one off Amazon recently for £18).

Those of you who want a decent transfer of the uncut version should buy either the US or the French disks.

However, the UK Anchor Bay/Metrodome older releases have two versions of the film - being the UK release and the Continental version with alternate takes of various tavern scenes in which the wenches are topless (nb: these are different actresses as well to those in the clothed version). The French release is the clothed UK version. I am not sure which version MGM is releasing but there will be only one version on the disk.

[dr death]

The current UK release is of course, the original theatrical version, for around £3 it might be worth it, just to own it. Afterall, for years, it was the only version UK fans had, I am a bit nostalgic for it to tell the truth- I will pick it up.

[claire]

Any extras on the MGM (R1) release? If not, I'll stick with the Prism release that was cheap, had two versions of the film and a few extras ...

[dr death]

I always thought the prism release was a great investment of a fiver. The restorers did their best afterall. :)

[MarcMorris]

I did the restoration and I know exactly just how flawed the UK disc is, so without question I would say get the new R1 disc. Besides, the new R1 release is the same price - just $9.99.

I did offer to supply my image gallery to MGM but I was a few weeks too late. Dammit!

Witchfinder General (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000RO9PUU/mondoerotico)

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EMTUsNCHL._SS500_.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000RO9PUU/mondoerotico)

[dr death]

What is the continued insistance with conecting this film with Edgar Allen Poe?

[claire]

Yes, but can people live without that Cathedral music video?:D

Oh, they can? Well, I think fans of the film should go for this uncut, pristine print ... just don't moan when you don't get the hilarious "music" video ...

[MarcMorris]

Unless the US version is also included (as THE CONQUEROR WORM), then none.

[dr death]

Unless the US version is also included (as THE CONQUEROR WORM), then none.

I admit the original U.S. title was taken from a line in one of Poe's poems and, in 1968, there were perhaps sound box office reasons, given the popularity of the Price/ Corman output but, it does seem a little strange now. Still, great cover art work and a very reasonable price too. :)

[SimonT]

Digressing for a moment, I seem to recall a sketch from an old 70's comedy show (Not the Nine O'Clock News perhaps?) entitled the WIG finder general.

There was some guy dressed up like Vincent price from the film, going round medieval england trying to expose people wearing hair pieces.

Does anyone else remember that one?

[SicCoyote]

Nope, but I liked the Pedo-Finder General from Monkey Dust.

[Vaughan]

--Digressing for a moment, I seem to recall a sketch from an old 70's comedy show (Not the Nine O'Clock News perhaps?) entitled the WIG finder genera--

I guess you had to be there. :D

[SimonT]

Yes, but can people live without that Cathedral music video?:D


You mean THIS one..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Qdj7pt7Iw

When was this filmed? Late 90's? Early 2000's?

I mean, is this a spoof or something?

They've got EVERY single rock cliche in the book contained in that one video. Did the 80's never happen, or are this group stuck in a time warp?

[SimonT]

Well in the end I went to Ebay and picked up the old Prism/Metrodome release for a very reasonable couple of quid including delivery.

Nice selection of extras, particularly liked the interviews with Ian Ogilvy and the crew.

I may purchase the forthcoming US DVD, but for the moment this will suffice nicely :)

Besides, I've got The Burning and several other US DVDs to fork out for first!

[WaveCrest]

I've had a look through the posts to date and wanted to ask the following question. It hasn't been asked in here yet (although it might have been asked in the other threads here about [b]British Film Forever[/b[ and discussion about the film on BBC2 tonight in one or two threads) - which version will be shown by BBC2 tonight?

[Mark Y]

'Twas the restored version with grainy inserts...

[SimonT]

'Twas the restored version with grainy inserts...

And the nudity in the tavern scene!

[christats]

I have the UK 2 version DVD,and recorded it last night just in case.T'was the same as the "restored" cut on the Metrodome DVD.

I am not 100% sure about the upcoming R1 MGM DVD as I have been concentrating on the other MGM'S.

I know it isn't the topless Euro print.Is it just a cleaned up same cut as the UK without restored inserts.

Or is it with restored inserts,but better quality.?
If the last then I order now.If not then it can wait a month or 2.?

[Grant]

Apparently the violence is uncut but the topless shots are missing.
Theres no 'Conqueror Worm' titles or voiceovers included either.

[SimonT]

Apparently the violence is uncut but the topless shots are missing.
Theres no 'Conqueror Worm' titles or voiceovers included either.

Are you on about the US MGM disc?

[Grant]

Yes thats what I've read Jack. I'm still waiting for mine.

[Gattaca]

Apparently the violence is uncut but the topless shots are missing.
Theres no 'Conqueror Worm' titles or voiceovers included either.

So a complete version is not being released then:confused:

[Mark Y]

Well I've always said any properly restored version of the film should include all the violence but lose the topless tavern scenes. Have 'em as an extra by all means but I don't think they were ever intended to be part of the original cut.

[Grant]

I think the topless scenes were only shot for the continental market and Reeves didn't consider them part of his 'vision' for the film anyway.

[R-T-C]

Yep, this would be the completely original version - the 'director's cut' if you will.

The other versions are:
- the continental cut, all the violence + gratuitous nudity
- the trimmed BBFC cut, with the violence missing.
- The US version, re-titled, re-cut and with a different soundtrack.

Would have been nice if MGM had included some of these alternate scenes on the DVD release, but I think a pristine print of the 'director's cut' is something worth celebrating on its own - lets just hope that 'The Wicker Man' one day gets the same treatment.

[Tim Rogerson]

Jusat to clarify that the topless shots in the "Continental version" are alternate takes of shots that are in the "normal" version (they all occur in various tavern scenes - Hilary Dwyer's topless shots are in both version) - it's just that the actresses have more clothes on in the UK version.

It's not correct to regard the clothed version as "cut".

[CountFilth]

It would have been nice if they could have included:

1) Uncut version (UK edit with BBFC cut scenes restored)
2) Conqueror Worm version
3) Alternative euro scenes as an extra (unless these were also in Conqueror Worm version)

But I'll no doubt be picking this up.

[Dr Phibes]

Just for reference, here's that comparison (http://web12.dvd2web.de/witchfinder/witchfinder.htm) of the UK and French transfers of Witchfinder.

Believe me when I say that the MGM transfer blows the French one away. The colours are lush, but not over-saturated; there is more detail; the brightness and contrast levels are spot on. I am an ardent admirer of John Coquillon's work as a cinematographer and it is thrilling to finally see his gorgeous and highly expressive naturalistic lighting done full justice.

[christats]

The above link has convinced me to shell out again.Might give the postman's arms a rest for a few days first.
I wasn't bothered if it was the export version or not,just how the inserted/restored footage compares.

[Dr Phibes]

Chris, be aware that the superior screencaps in that link are of the French DVD: the MGM transfer is even better than it - vastly so; the colours are gorgeous (reds are like those in the Paramount or MGM Zulu transfers) and the dark scenes are perfectly balanced. I never imagined that this film could look so good.

[Dracucarr]

Chris, be aware that the superior screencaps in that link are of the French DVD: the MGM transfer is even better than it - vastly so; the colours are gorgeous (reds are like those in the Paramount or MGM Zulu transfers) and the dark scenes are perfectly balanced. I never imagined that this film could look so good.

Ooooh, really can't wait for this! I've ordered it twice as I ordered it singluar and in the boxset (bought only for the exclusive VP extras since I have the other films).

[mark meakin]

I was watching the new r1 release of Witchfinder General which looks stunning & noticed like the UK dvd of Terror on the Warren set,the Tigon boxset version is missing a second or so.After Nicky Henson exclaims "Oh my God" we see Price lying on the ground as Ogilvy strikes his bloody body.In the UK version Price is hit on screen twice,but in the new US version he is hit three times.In both cases the last strike is not actually seen connecting with Price's body.The UK version is missing the very first blow after "Oh my God".It's nice to see the cut sequences looking as pristine as the rest of the film now though I'm still grateful Marc & co originally introduced us to the full version with the continental tavern shots.I would've liked these as an extra on the US dvd along with Price's Conqueror Worm poem recitement.I've never heard the score that replaced the beautiful Ferris one (now restored)so a snippet of that would've been nice.I was disappointed with the documentary but the commentary which contains two "F" words was good.The dvd is rated PG in Canada and would surely get a 15 if submitted here again uncut.

[mark meakin]

Speak of the devil it looks like someone did resubmit it in March which I missed but from the RT it would seem to be the cut version:-
http://www.bbfc.org.uk/website/Classified.nsf/c2fb077ba3f9b33980256b4f002da32c/0b585074e3a7a53d8025729e00390e0c?OpenDocument