Media blame game again?

[SimonT]

Just reading some of the news reports about the recent case involving those 2 young thugs from Doncaster (you know the case).

I see that they're already making a big issue out of the lads viewing habits, as we can see from this article by the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8474133.stm) which says

"Their court hearing was told the older boy had seen the gruesome Saw movies, the Chucky films and pornographic DVDs.

The horror films he saw often depicted mutilation and torture and in a field in South Yorkshire one Saturday afternoon last April, the two brothers made their own horror movie. "

This will of course be seized upon by the usual suspects citing this of evidence of the evils of horror movies and porn films.

The fact that these 2 were routinely exposed to domestic violence, were allowed to smoke cannabis and consume alchohol has nothing to do with it of course.

So, you reckon we're in for another censorship storm, like what happened in the early 90s after The Jamie Bulger incident?

There is a General election looking and the 2 main parties have both pledged at looking at the way the BBFC is run, should we fear any major repercussions you think?

[HammerDave]

Possibly, but given the availability of DVDs from other regions it'll be rather more meaningless than the last couple of times. Plus, the BBFC seems to be a lot less reactionary these days. We can only wait and see I guess.

[SimonT]

Possibly, but given the availability of DVDs from other regions it'll be rather more meaningless than the last couple of times. Plus, the BBFC seems to be a lot less reactionary these days. We can only wait and see I guess.

It's not the BBFC that worry me though, its the politicians who make the laws that the BBFC have to adhere to that worry me!

[drterror666]

I think the thinking public understand these days that it takes more than horror/porn to create a killer. I think this one will blow over when the next big story arrives.

[Companero]

I think the thinking public understand these days that it takes more than horror/porn to create a killer. I think this one will blow over when the next big story arrives.

True enough when you're speaking of the "thinking public" DrTerror, but there are a lot of fucking idiots who fly into blind panic when this sort of thing happens and eat-up the scapegoat stories with a spoon. I think we're on very dicey ground at the moment with a general election coming up: all we need is for the Tories to pledge a reform on censorship as a reaction to this and other similar crimes. I have a strong inkling that they will get in this time around too...

[MarcMorris]

I'm convinced that if the Tories get in we can expect at some point another strict shake up of our film and DVD classification system.

[Companero]

I'm convinced that if the Tories get in we can expect at some point another strict shake up of our film and DVD classification system.

All the more reason why those that don't usually vote to turn out at the stations to vote against them. ;)

[guthrie!]

Without meaning to overblow peoples fears, i think to anyone reading this thread they should take 'paticular' note of the last two posts.
That honestly about sums it up! So anyone undecided on voting- go for it, thats what it's there for 'your choice' and its supposed to be a democracy.
And remember that just because an mp or the media suddenly decide for you what is and isnt populist, then that dosent always (hardly ever!) mean its necasserily true, does it? Look at the opposition to the current conflicts in Afghanistan and especially Iraq, has that influenced government decision?
What do you think?
And unfortunately regardless of the internet/lack of control etc.. Theres still nothing to stop the authorities from introducing even more ridiculous/draconian and ill-thought out laws and rules for us all.
All this seems to come in cyclical terms dont you think?

[jacksmith1983]

What makes you think David Cameron would be any more likely to advocate stronger censorship than Gordon Brown. When Tory MP Julian Brazier was trying to put his ridiculous private members bill through parliament in 2008, I don't recall Cameron exactly coming out in force to support his colleague.

I'm not sure which way Cameron would lean on the issue to be honest and to be frank I don't see it really arising as a major issue again in the near future as aside from the Daily Mail and Mediawatch types who most in authority dismiss as hysterical nuts anyway no-one is really making a fuss over it.

It's worth noting that the one MP who makes the most noise over the issue is linked with Labour, namely the odious Keith Vaz.

I think the reaction to this horrific case in Doncaster shows that the public is becoming more liberal minded and sensible in the way they treat these issue's. While these stories have appeared in the media citing the Saw films, porn DVD's, etc, almost all of the public anger has been directed at the parents who reared these two monster's and there has been very little scapegoating of the media.

For the record I do believe that extremely violent films and video games may be a toxic influence on more impressionable children from underclass background's who are being dragged up half-feral with no real adult supervision or guidance. However, while films and games may be affecting the form violence perpetrated by this pond life is taking, it certainly is not the actual cause by any extent of the imagination and anyone who says otherwise is simply looking for a scapegoat. The answer to the problem is tighter enforcement of the age classification system, not to mention more affirmative action being taken by the police and social services to deal with these "problem" families in the first place.

[Companero]

There's not much more tightening of the classification system that can be done to prevent younger people seeing age-restricted content though, Jack. High street retailers are responsible when it comes to the supply of age-restricted media: gone are the days in which kids could walk into a video shop and rent an '18' simply because the proprietor was out to make a fast buck. The era during which I grew up, I hasten to add... and I turned out alright. The problem rests in the hands of the parents and telling someone what their kids can and can't see is a thorny issue. I'm not a parent but if I had children I'd certainly use my savvy when it came to allowing what they saw. I think the BBFC certificates are a great guideline but there are obvious exceptions to the rule (Ferris Bueller's Day Off's 15 cert, or the 15 and 18 ratings for some of the old Hammer flicks being just a few examples). Maybe some parents just aren't responsible enough?

Like you say, it is the way in which these kids are dragged up buy abusive and/or neglectful parents that moulds their psyches. I don't for one minute think that a good kid from a balanced background could be stirred into a violent, psychotic frenzy after watching something inappropriate. I do however believe that there is a possibility that a kid who has had a terrible upbringing could "learn" from the material they're not permitted to see by law.

[guthrie!]

I honestly dont trust labour nu or otherwise any more than the tories or virtually any other party. They seem to have their own agendas which do not reflect the opinion of people in this country.
Dont you think it's awfully convienient that horrendous stories like this appear 'occasionly'?
If people knew the truth about domestic violence and child death rates in this country they would be up in arms or (as i honesly fear) be clubbed and desensitised by it to the point of no motivation/lethargy.
Sorry to drone and rant folks but there are on average 2 child deaths a week in the uk! Not accidents or illness but out of cruelty and neglect.
Dosent that give some sort of indication of how things are? Basically, although the Edlington/doncaster case IS an exception i feel its one of those instances where its media generated and not truly representative of the scale of things that happen where we all live and work. We do live in a land of have and have nots with a divide thats slowly getting bigger. And unemployment is reaching record highs! This is a very complex debate/argument etc... but from where i am and where i grew up/people i've grown up with etc poverty/crime seem to go hand in hand, thats not to say the rich or affluent or anyone from any other 'class' (sorry hate that word in this context;)) dosent commit crimes but in low income households, troubled estates and people with a lack of education or learning responsibility it does seem to flourish. Anyway thats enough, sorry if i'm being preachy peeps :).
DONT HAVE NIGHTMARES.:eek:

[SimonT]

I think I can honestly say that anyone who thinks that the Tories are going to be more censorious than Labour come the next election clearly hasn't been paying attention to current affairs.

Might I remind people of THIS ARTICLE (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/06/30/my-manifesto-115875-21482528/) that I have posted about before in which Gordon Brown is quoted as saying, amongst other things he intends to do IF his party get in again...

"There has been increasing concern among MPs at the way the British Board of Film Classification rates games.

Critics say that, in recent years, it has adopted a perilous policy of allowing practically anything to be seen by adults - and offensive material to be shown to children.

A review of the impact of violent films and games on children was headed by TV psychologist Dr Tanya Byron.

It is also expected that the public will be given new rights to appeal against the rulings of the BBFC"

So, it seems they have ressurected Julian Braziers disasterous idea that was killed off in private members bill form and are looking at bringing in ways to over rule the BBFC if they disagree with their decisions.

I should also remind people that under Labour we now have the worlds very first thought crime on the statute books in the form of the "Dangerous Pictures Act", which means that by possessing certain types of adult pornography which, though exceptionally distasteful is actually being put on for the camera by consenting adults and perfectly legal in the rest of Europe, is now illegal to merely posses, but is punishable by jail and listing on the sex offenders register. :eek:

Theres also the new cartoon laws which means that, very shortly, it will be illegal to possess sexually explicit cartoons IF the characters look younger than 18, punishable by the same. How DO you tell the age of a cartoon exactly?

This means they'll be carting the manga/anime fans off to the gulags shortly then, along with anyone who possesses any of those pornographic Simpsons cartoons.

Since when was bad taste grounds enough to make otherwise law-biding citizens sex offenders overnight? Labour clearly think so.

There's also the basic freedoms that have been eroded under labour which means that you can now be arrested and charged for things that aren't actually illegal. Depending on whether your behaviour is liable to cause "harrasment alarm or distress", however you choose to interpret that. These laws were supposed to be applied to football hooligans, but instead the local plod have been using them to harrass innocent people who merely cause a slight bit of "offence" to someone (Shopkeepers have been harassed for selling gollies and posters of Madonna on that glittery crucifix).

There's the ILLEGAL retention of suspects DNA and use of stop and search powers under the terrorism act, which have both been ruled unlawful by the European court of Human rights, yet the goverment have told the police to continue with these anyway.

ID cards? You wanna have to shell out extortionate amounts for these things, which won't eliminate any of the problems they claim they will?

But returning to the subject of censorship, the worst thing I have seen the Tories claim they're going to do is a review as to how the classification system is regulated, which is rather vague, but does seem to hint that some sort of shake up may happen.

So, whoever gets in we are probably going to see some of change one way or the other.

But I would urge anyone thinking things would be better under Labour to review their track record so far, particularly regarding individual freedoms and civil liberties. If they get in again I fear we will be living in a police state in another 4 years time!

[guthrie!]

I hope no-one thinks i'm a staunch labour supporter from previous comments!
I'm not and SimonT, i couldent agree more with you!
This is also why i say i dont trust 'any' of the parties (ok i'm sure theres some lesser known parties i've overlooked-thats up to other people to correct me then.;)), the present clutch we have seem to be more concerned about their public image and profit than actually thinking through the causes of crime-hence us poor film fans (libertarians, whatever!!) get scapegoated and once again royally shat on. Personally i've been out of 'the collecting/trading' scene for a while up until about a year ago and the 1st thing i thought when logging on here and being amazed at the amount of material suddenly available to me is......too good to be true. I hope this isnt the case though.

[HammerDave]

SimonT and guthrie!, good points. Censorship is unfortunately always an easy winner for any political party. An easy opportunity to play the 'think of the children' card, because anyone speaking out is easily dismissed as a pervert or a psycho or both. However the Dangerous Pictures Act is a particularly spurious and nasty bit of legislation, particularly since a lot of people seem to class pornography as anything where either participant isn't fully clothed :(

[EMcG]

Looks like Cameron is going to run with this - read about it HERE (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/all-bad-things-caused-by-vhs-copy-of-'ghoulies'%2c-says-cameron-201001262411/)

[MarcMorris]

Yes, but wait till he sees some of Charles Band's Full Moon stuff!

[Companero]

That article is probably not that far removed from reality. :)

[jacksmith1983]

The "like Alien remade by marmosets" line in regards to Inseminoid almost made me laugh out loud.

To be honest I don't know what way Cameron (who lets face it is a shoe in for PM now unless he encounters some sort of public relations catastrophe in the coming months) will bend on these issue's. Yes the Tories are a party with a history of advocating strict censorshoip measure's and yes we will still have Brazier lurking oin the back benches. However, I'm sure Cameron will be acutely conscious of the fact that there is already an escalating media backlash against perceived "Big Brother" intrusion by both central government, local authorities an, to a lesser degree, the police into the private lives of law-abiding citizen's. While moves to outlaw hardcore pornographic rape fantasy and bestality footage may only meet with limited dissent, I think any politician trying to criminalise the sale and ownership of stuff such as the Saw and Child's Play series' which seem to be cited constantly is articles of this nature would have little public support outside of the Daily Mail readership. It's not 1993 anymore and this sort of picture has a much broader appeal to casual viewer's than it would have done 15 or so years ago.

[SimonT]

I think any politician trying to criminalise the sale and ownership of stuff such as the Saw and Child's Play series' which seem to be cited constantly is articles of this nature would have little public support outside of the Daily Mail readership. It's not 1993 anymore and this sort of picture has a much broader appeal to casual viewer's than it would have done 15 or so years ago.

Whilst it is true that any attempt to directly ban such films would be met with fierce opposition, the government would be fully aware of this and so would seek to try and outlaw, or curb the availability of such films, via the back door.

A piece of craftily worded legislation, which could be interpretted extremely broadly, using words such as grossly violent or offensive material, could be pushed through with justifications such as protecting children against unsuitable material. To pass it through unchallenged all they need do is tack it onto a larger and much more important piece of legistlation that they want hurried through and so any opposition could be disspelled with the excuse "we havent got time to debate all the aspects of this bill and it is imperitive its passage through the house is not delayed" and hey presto the next thing you know its reached royal ascent!

Don't scoff, thats exactly what they did with the DPA!

[guthrie!]

EXACTLY Simon, that is a real part of whats wrong with this whole 'system', i sense something ominous coming and i'm sorry to sound paranoid but as i said before-i dont know what form of legislation/ruling may come- too good to be true!
Jack i dont mean to ignore/disregard your comments sir, i suppose i'm just worried because i remember vividly the scary anti-video/horror witchunt of the '80's and the '90's and i'm really startinng to get my back up. Sorry folks i dont wish to be negative on here.

[Timmy Lea]

The "like Alien remade by marmosets" line in regards to Inseminoid almost made me laugh out loud.



Can't wait to tell Norman the next time I see him....:)

I was going to start a thread on this msyelf, but everyone beat me to it, and more or less said everything I was going to say anyway...

[Dave Jay]

How would this work, though? We've had (relatively) liberal censorship laws for many years now, and there's a fair few extreme examples of '18' cert movies freely available in the UK (not to mention the 'R18' certification). Would a roll-back in the liberalisation of the BBFC suddenly make these titles illegal? How can it work in real terms?

Sure they may tighten up the BBFC's laws to suit their own ends, but it'll soon prove ridiculous. What are they going to do? Declare an amnesty, requesting everybody hand in their current copies of IRREVERSIBLE, SALON KITTY and CALIGULA so they can re-certify them? Raid the BFI - those lowly purveyors of degenerate movies such as SALO and MAITRESSE? Ban all DVD imports?

I reckon it's just a typically ill-thought out, knee-jerk reaction. There's very little that can be done now in the name of 'decency', especially compared to back in the early 1980's, when we were far more a little island at the mercy of the government's whims and fancies...